Chord Melodies (The General Whats n' Hows?)

WyrmDL · #1 08-20-2008, 11:06 PM

Hey TB.

I've recently been looking into chord movements and melodies, and I started to get an idea of what its about, but still a bit lost on how they work and all that.

So if you have a certain chord progression, how do you work out a melody over that? Or is it the other way around, working with a melody?

Also, I actually just started on chords in the first place. My question is: what is a progression based on? I get advice like "play the ii-V-I progression...", but I have no idea where to start with that.

Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate it

Dogbertday · #2 08-20-2008, 11:15 PM

I learned it as a chord flow chart (i've also heard of chord tree)... it's a basic accepted map of chord progressions for tonal music. Our school uses the book "Tonal Harmony" and it's all in there...

but basically if you start with a melody written out in standard notation you can pick the important notes (probably on down beats but not always) and figure out what chords go with those notes. you'll end up with a few and then you do that for the other important notes. If you're writing basic rock and pop you'll find yourself slipping into patterns and it will be easier than I'm making it seem... basicall when starting with a melody you just listen i your head for changes that you're hearing and then try and match them in your playing.

Writing a melody to set chords never made much sense to me unless it is a riff based rock song such as Cochise or the like. but basic 4 chord songs and even more complex chord based songs most likely follow what I had put above..

sorry if this is confusing I'm trying to put it into the simplest terms because I don't know what your level of knowledge is of theory

Rudreax · #3 08-21-2008, 12:05 AM

Here's an example of a chord progression map.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...ressionMap.gif

Deacon_Blues · #4 08-21-2008, 12:23 AM

I usually come up with the melody and chord progression at the same time, but the melody is the "master" and the chords are the "slave", if you know what I mean. I let the melody dictate the chord progression. I have a decent ear nowadays so I can do this pretty well.

If you're a beginner that aren't used to how various chord progressions sound, stick strictly to diatonic chords and melodies. (Later when you get better you can jump out of this "safe box" but you need to know the basics first). Practice some really simple songs and fit chords to that one. If you stay in the key C major, select chords from this list:

C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am
(alternatively Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Fmaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5)

When you fit the chords to the melody, find the strong beats (mainly 1 and 3) and check which chords on the list above contain the melody note on that particular beat. Try all possibilities you can find. When you're done with this exercise, try to come up with a melody, memorize/record or write it down, and fit chords to that melody as well.

The aim with this exercise is to build up an ear that tells you what to play next based on how the melody goes. It takes some time (usually years) to get really good at it, but the most fundamental parts shouldn't be too hard to learn within some shorter time range.

A lot of music is diatonic so you'll get far by knowing these basics in and out. When you know this all you can jump out of the safe diatonic box to start to explore more interesting progressions, but you need to be able to walk before you can run... :-)

WyrmDL · #5 08-23-2008, 05:34 PM

Thanks for the help so far, I appreciate it ☺

I have some additional questions now though. When I look at the chord tree, all I see are letters and roman numerals; I cant really tell where to start with that. Can someone clear this up?

You also stated “(alternatively Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Fmaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5)”; Im wondering what that does exactly, rather than playing like a normal C chord, and how would I know (in future cases) which chord would work for a certain one, or is this part of the ear training?

Thanks guys

Deacon_Blues · #6 08-24-2008, 02:03 AM

That chord progression map seemed a bit complicated to me, I'll let Rudreax explain that.

Those chords in brackets I wrote down are the same chords as in the line above except they are tedrads instead of triads, i.e. a fourth chord note is added, the 7th. (I only added the Bm7b5 in the lower line because as a triad, this chord doesn't really sound very nice and is seldom used). All notes in these chords, both lines, belong to the C major scale. On a piano, these chords are what you get when you play every second white note in four note blocks (CEGB, DFAC, EGBD....).

Whether a triad or a tetrad fits better is up to you to decide. Different voicings also sound different. Often, it sounds good on piano to move the seventh down an octave, and you can move around the other chord notes to different octaves as well to get different voicings of a chord. Just experiment with these things and learn...

Mo' Bass 00 · #7 08-24-2008, 05:58 AM

I found this a while back, maybe it'll help some!

http://www.michael-thomas.com/music/...ogressions.htm

Agilulfo · #8 08-24-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyrmDL

So if you have a certain chord progression, how do you work out a melody over that? Or is it the other way around, working with a melody?

You should be able to do it both ways. Try reading some tonal harmony textbooks on voice leading. Generally speaking, you should start thinking in term or guide tones. Guide tones, as the term implies, are basic melodic lines which are used as a guiding framework through a chord progression. For example: pick a simple chord progression (I-IV-V, or C-F-G) and start on any chord tone of the first chord. Then, at the chord change, move to a note of the incoming chord that is close (a second, ideally) to the outgoing chord. Most of time there will be one or two choices (you can even pick the same note or, common tones between the two chords). If you repeat the process through the entire progression, you will have a basic melodic line that can serve as guide for either a melody, a solo, or a bass line.

JTE · #9 08-25-2008, 01:08 PM

OK, start with a song. It's got a melody, and it's got chord changes. Lear 'em. Both of them. Take "My Foolish Heart" for example ('cause it's a beautiful melody!). Get some sheet music to it. A fake-book version will do nicely. Learn the melody, both how it sounds and how to play it. Then learn the chords, all of them. Then find voicings for the chords that have the melody note as the highest note each time. If the melody note isn't a chord tone, then keep the chord and just find the melody note.

jte

WyrmDL · #10 08-27-2008, 07:13 PM

Im still a little unsure on what each roman numeral for the progressions represents. I think I have a slight idea, but I dont want to go off in the wrong direction.

If you have an I-IV-V progression, what does each numeral stand for?

Mushroo · #11 08-27-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyrmDL

Im still a little unsure on what each roman numeral for the progressions represents. I think I have a slight idea, but I dont want to go off in the wrong direction.

If you have an I-IV-V progression, what does each numeral stand for?

Roman numerals stand for chords based on a certain degree of the scale.

Let's use C Major as an example.

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C = 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8

That's the scale, right?

So:
I=C Major chord (scale degree 1)
IV=F Major chord (scale degree 4)
V=G Major chord (scale degree 5)

It works in any key. I-IV-V in E is E-A-B, for example.

Correlli · #12 08-27-2008, 07:46 PM

Theory of Harmony - An Overview

Martin Bormann · #13 08-28-2008, 03:27 AM

The OP really has no idea. Giving him flow charts isn't going to help him. Especially if he doesn't know intervals or chord construction. This will set him up to learn bad voice leading habits. I recommend he take some diatonic harmony classes at a local community college if he really wants to learn. Or at the very least get some books on basic theory.

Mushroo · #14 08-28-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Bormann

The OP really has no idea. Giving him flow charts isn't going to help him. Especially if he doesn't know intervals or chord construction. This will set him up to learn bad voice leading habits. I recommend he take some diatonic harmony classes at a local community college if he really wants to learn. Or at the very least get some books on basic theory.

Well, he asked, so nothing wrong with trying to help, right?

But I agree, harmony isn't something you can learn overnight. WyrmDL, you really should take a music theory class or private lessons, be patient and get the basics down so they are automatic. The 12 major scales, the circle of 5ths, key signatures, intervals, how to construct major/minor/diminished/7th chords, voice leading, etc. It is also important to learn how to hear these concepts, not just understand them in the abstract.

All that being said, sometimes as bass players, we can get away with just following the root notes of the progression. So, if you can play the roots of basic progressions (I-IV-V, I-V-vi-IV, bVII-IV-I, 12-bar blues, etc.) you are off to a good start as far as jamming with a band and holding down the bottom. Good luck!