chord progression

[jaebee]

hey, i 'composed' this earlier today when i couldnt fall back asleep, was just wondering what people think of it (i cant play keyboard well enough to make it sound decent and in time lol)

also my first time writing something in minor key so im not positive on all the sounds sounding as good as they could

Am-Cmaj7-Bdim7-D7-Fmaj7-E7-D7-Gmaj-
Am-Bb-Bdim7- D7- Fmaj7- E7- D7- Gmaj-
Am- Cmaj7- Fmaj7- D7- Fmaj7- E7- D7- Gmaj-
Am- Bb- Fmaj7- D7- Fmaj7- G7- Fmaj7- E7-
Am- Bb- Fmaj7- D7- Fmaj7- E7- Fmaj7 G7-
Am-Cmaj7-Bdim7 -D7-Fmaj7-E7-D7-Cmaj

would appreciate feedback (positive or negative, but if negative why so i can try to improve) and also possibly a better ending?

also, if anyone happened to play in with a certain rhythm and recorded it and possibly made it available for me to play bass over, that would be really cool

also good substitutions for the Am ( i know that Am6 works but im not accustomed to that chord so i cant tell where to put it)


thanks

[BassChuck]

I haven't play through the chords so I can't comment on that part... but I'm thinking that a purchase of "Band In A Box" for you would be very cool. You could hear the progression at different tempos, with and without bass (so you could play along) and in different styles. Check it out. Band In A Box doesn't do everything, but what it does it does well and its a wonderful composition tool.

[stedtale]

www.activebass.com

"track builder"

Plug in the chords and listen to it. I'll do that, let you know what I think.

[DocBop]

I think you're probably hearing something the rest of us won't. It is a bunch of chords and everyone who plays them will hear something different. I would say refine it a bit more come up with a bassline and a rhythm that would give people a better idea what you are hearing in you head.

Also make a quick and dirty recording. You have a computer get Audicity recording software its free. Just need a mic. At least you'll be able to listen to it while not trying to play it and others can get an idea what you are thinking.

[jaebee]

ya the problem is that i am not very good at keyboard at all, so at best i would be able to get the approximate bar lengths out of those chords, and sloppily at that. currently the only thing i'm hearing is the progression, i dont really have a tune in my head, and was messing around with basically a I VI II IV type progression and a bVI V IV bVII

was mostly wondering how i can go about refining it more, and what other substitutions are available to make it interesting (got the tritone in there, very proud of myself )

i have guitar pro and remember the sounds being very synth like anyways so i will probably try plugging it in there or as stedtale says, that link.

thanks everyone!

also, still wondering what else would be a good substitute for the Am in a minor progression, can i only add on the Am chord itself (Am6) or are there other RN's i can sub in?

thanks

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by jaebee

also, still wondering what else would be a good substitute for the Am in a minor progression, can i only add on the Am chord itself (Am6) or are there other RN's i can sub in?

thanks

At a glance, your tune seems to be weaving through several key centers. I see elements of the related keys of Aminor and Cmaj, so you might think about the Eminor chord, which is another chord in the tonic chord family in C major.

The Bdim7 is oddly placed (and I don't mean it's wrong!). The majority of diminished chords are first-inversion secondary dominant chords. In other words, the Bdim7 is like a G7(b9) chord with the third (B) in the bass. That inversion is normally used for chromatic voice-leading in the bass (Bb - Bdim - F/C). If you meant Bm7(b5), it has it's own set of standard movements, depending on the key you're in at the time. Either way, the Bdim7 to D7 is a somewhat weak move, IMO (but not wrong).

Without hearing a melody to the song, it's pretty tough to give you a lot of useful input.

Good luck, and keep up the writing!

[DocBop]

In general the substitute for a chord is a chord built from the 3rd of the chord. So for you Am chord C major is the substitute.

Here's your chart of Minor chords and their sub's.

I sub bIII
IV sub II, bVI
V sub bVII

Major chord and their subs.

I sub III, VI
IV sub II
V sub VII

The Tritone sub is mainly used on dominant chords. I have seen it used on non-dominant chords, but usually on a sequence of chords and stopping at a point where the next chord would be a strong bass movement like a half-step. That is another topic I understand, but don't know how to explain very well and that is strong root movement of chords. A lot of this stuff works because of the root movement of the chords. Like the other threads talking about the ear hearing and accepting symmetric chords, the ear hears strong root movement and can accept a lot in what the upper notes of the chord is. For simple example that is why Blue is cool with all dominant chords, the ear like the root movement of the chords.

I would suggest to get used to chord substitutions instead of jumping in an trying to compose with them take a song you know and try them. Keep in mind with substitutions chord voicing, root movement, and style of music play a lot into how acceptable they are. Like if you got on the bandstand with a old gutbucket Blues player and started using tritone sub's. You will fully understand the old saying "if looks could kill!"

Your doing going to learn a lot with all this experimenting and hearing what these things sound like. Keep it up.

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Minor chords and their subs.

I sub bIII (minor tonic group)
IV sub II, bVI (minor subdominant group)
V sub bVII (natural minor dominant group - would be VII on harmonic or melodic minor)

Major chord and their subs.

I sub III, VI (major tonic group)
IV sub II (major subdominant group)
V sub VII (major dominant group)

Right on, Doc! I've added their harmonic functions.

[jaebee]

Originally Posted by KayCee

Right on, Doc! I've added their harmonic functions.

thanks a lot to the both of you.
you are really helping me understand this more complex theory. I havent found a book which delves into theory this deep yet. I really like to understand what im playing, and I agree that some of my changes were probably odd. but i basically just sat down and tried it out.

half step is a strong root movement, im assuming a 3rd, 5th are also strong movements?

thanks a lot for the substitution groupings, helps a lot to know what is supposed to go where, because then i can fingure out why its supposed to go there which only broadens my knowledge and increases my ability.

besides the half step, what are other strong interval jumps for root movement, and what exactly determines the key center, and or why it changes? is it the chord that comes next (with a strong root movement) or going from the dominant of one tonic to the dominant of another?

i'm assuming none of those substitutions are not going to change the key center?

thanks a lot guys! you are a huge help and are really educating me.

edit: i know the cycle of fourths is a strong movement, so half step and iv

edit again: if i I sub III in a major progression, would i want to III sub V, ie ascend roots in thirds? or would that only be to maintain that tonal center, ie, ascend in thirds if i want to keep the tonal center major ?

edit one last time (dont like to double post and i get more questions as i think lol) tritone substitution in a blue progression that resolves to the tonic = good?

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by jaebee

half step is a strong root movement, im assuming a 3rd, 5th are also strong movements?

edit: i know the cycle of fourths is a strong movement, so half step and iv

There you go! (especially descending half step & perfect fourth)

[jaebee]

ok i figured i just needed to post again, lol, does the tri tone sub. for the V7 in a minor progression then imply the harmonic minor, where as the tri tone for the IV7 implies the melodic minor? or can it (the V7 sub) also imply the melodic minor?

thank you

edit: 3rd's and 5th's are strong movements, but not as strong as 1/2step down and perfect 4th?

[KayCee]

Originally Posted by jaebee

ok i figured i just needed to post again, lol, does the tri tone sub. for the V7 in a minor progression then imply the harmonic minor, where as the tri tone for the IV7 implies the melodic minor? or can it (the V7 sub) also imply the melodic minor?

thank you

edit: 3rd's and 5th's are strong movements, but not as strong as 1/2step down and perfect 4th?

The tritone sub can be used on any primary or secondary dominant chord in major or minor.

3rds & 5ths are strong harmonic intervals. As a root movement, up a third is relatively weak, down a third relatively strong. Up a fifth is not as strong as down a fifth (which is the same as up a fourth).