Chord Shape Methodology?

[KingRazor]

Okay this is more of a guitar question than a bass question (please don't throw rocks), this question is related to music theory though, so I feel it's appropriate to ask.

I know that a chord is made up of the root, 3rd, and 5th, with variations. What I don't know is how they decided on the different chord shapes on guitar.

Why did they decide to have the C chord include the C on the third fret of the A string, the E on the second fret of the D string, the open G, the C on the first fret of the B string and the open high E?

How do they come up with the different chord shapes and how do they change with tuning variations?

[JTE]

It's simply a matter of finding the voicings that make sense physically and sound right. For example, a simple open G chord could be played two ways. One is voiced (bass to treble) G B D G B G because there's an open D, G, and B string. But another common way to play that is to play a D on the second string instead of the open B.

Your C chord question begs the question of "how else WOULD you play it, given the standard tuning?" The E string has two chord tones on it in the first position, the third (E open) and the fifth (G at the 3rd fret). The A string only has one choice in that position, and the same for the D, G, and B strings. You're pretty well locked into that fingering for a C chord with standard tuning. The only options are whether to play a G at the 3rd fret of the E strings or not. For the sixth string, that E in the bass is not real common for most music so the choice then is either to play the fifth (G) in the bass or leave the sixth string out entirely and play the root that's right there on the fifth string.

And all the chord shapes change in some part if you change the tuning. But it's relatively simple- if the string is lowered a whole step, the all the notes you'd play on it in standard tuning now have to be fretted two frets higher. Sometimes it works well, other times you have to find another voicing to use.

John

[KingRazor]

So you basically find the best way to play it depending on your tuning (and how far you can stretch your fingers)?

(((Also, I realize the C chord was probably a bad example)))

[Marty Forrer]

Some of it comes down to the sound you want to project. The C chord you listed is a much more resonant chord than the C chord played in barr form on the 3rd fret. Consequently the first C is a good choice for country, folk, etc, and the second C is good for rock or anything where a chugging sound is required. There must be dozens of varieties of C chord on a fingerboard, ranging from 2 note chords to full barrs.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes to ease in fretting and what sound do you want. Also do you want or need duplication of notes, i.e. a full bodied chord or is just the 1-3-5 all you need. Look at the B, G & D strings on a 6 string guitar - the three inside strings. Want an A chord just play those three strings at the 2nd fret. Want a C chord - play those three strings at the 5th fret.

Not getting into inversions there are all kinds of ways to make a chord. Which way do you want and what sound can you live with? How about a one finger G or C or E7 and a no finger Em7. F giving you fits look below.

Check this out. http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/42

[JTE]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

So you basically find the best way to play it depending on your tuning (and how far you can stretch your fingers)?

(((Also, I realize the C chord was probably a bad example)))

Yeah. That's why I hate those "26,000,000 Guitar Chords" kind of books. It's a lot better to understand exactly WHAT a chord is than just see a crapload of shapes repeated one fret higher each time. If you really want to get into understanding guitar chords, there are two resources I can recommend. One is the Johnny Smith Guitar Method by Mel Bay. He bases it all on a few simple shapes and knowing the scale degrees. Amin7? It's an Amin, or it's a C with an A in the bass because the guitar doesn't have to play the root (that's why there are bass players). After you come to grips with those shapes you'll start to see all the options. Need a Cb5? Well you know which of the notes in your shape is the fifth, so you just lower it one fret.

The other is something I learned from Howard Roberts' column in Guitar Player Magazine back in the '70s and '80s. It's called CAGED and there are other methods out now that seem to be loosely based on it. If what you look up for CAGED only talks about the five chord shapes, they've missed the whole point. But it gives you an easy to remember, use, and apply musically pattern for seeing the major scale, the arpeggios and the chord shapes all over the neck.

Bottom line is that to really play guitar or to understand chords, you have to know the chord structure, not just shapes.

John

[Papa Dangerous]

A few reasons I can think of, most of which have been stated.

1) In a given hand position, try and find all the appropriate notes that are within the given chord and play them most comfortably.
2) Barre Chords are the same shape, but changing position, and one other finger can change pitch/quality (M/m(
3) Inversions. Some chords are played nicely inverted, especially with a good set up and resolution to it.
4) Sometimes depending on how you play a chord, can change the sound ever so slightly. An open chord sounds more full then a closed chord.
-Think about how you want to stack the voices of the chord. Instead of wanting 1,3,5,7 in that order, you can have 1,5,3,7 (or something - I do not mean those numbers literally).

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

A few reasons I can think of, most of which have been stated.

1) In a given hand position, try and find all the appropriate notes that are within the given chord and play them most comfortably.
2) Barre Chords are the same shape, but changing position, and one other finger can change pitch/quality (M/m(
3) Inversions. Some chords are played nicely inverted, especially with a good set up and resolution to it.
4) Sometimes depending on how you play a chord, can change the sound ever so slightly. An open chord sounds more full then a closed chord.
-Think about how you want to stack the voices of the chord. Instead of wanting 1,3,5,7 in that order, you can have 1,5,3,7 (or something - I do not mean those numbers literally).

Actually, 1 5 3 7 is a pretty useful voicing of a 7th chord. It's got the root and fifth down on the bottom to give the chord authority, and the very cool 3 and 7 (just play those two notes on the top two strings of a guitar and you've got "Red House" and million other cool guitar licks) on top.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by JTE

Yeah. That's why I hate those "26,000,000 Guitar Chords" kind of books. It's a lot better to understand exactly WHAT a chord is than just see a crapload of shapes repeated one fret higher each time. If you really want to get into understanding guitar chords, there are two resources I can recommend. One is the Johnny Smith Guitar Method by Mel Bay. He bases it all on a few simple shapes and knowing the scale degrees. Amin7? It's an Amin, or it's a C with an A in the bass because the guitar doesn't have to play the root (that's why there are bass players). After you come to grips with those shapes you'll start to see all the options. Need a Cb5? Well you know which of the notes in your shape is the fifth, so you just lower it one fret.

The other is something I learned from Howard Roberts' column in Guitar Player Magazine back in the '70s and '80s. It's called CAGED and there are other methods out now that seem to be loosely based on it. If what you look up for CAGED only talks about the five chord shapes, they've missed the whole point. But it gives you an easy to remember, use, and apply musically pattern for seeing the major scale, the arpeggios and the chord shapes all over the neck.

Bottom line is that to really play guitar or to understand chords, you have to know the chord structure, not just shapes.

John

Yeah I'm familiar with the CAGED system but they were only talking about the five chord shapes.

I'm with you I'd rather learn how the chords are structured and why. The fingering doesn't matter to me, whatever I have to use to play what I need to play.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by JTE

Actually, 1 5 3 7 is a pretty useful voicing of a 7th chord. It's got the root and fifth down on the bottom to give the chord authority, and the very cool 3 and 7 (just play those two notes on the top two strings of a guitar and you've got "Red House" and million other cool guitar licks) on top.

HAH! I understand the concept of stacking voices, and can hear a good pair verse less preferable pairing, but I never recall which way to do it without actually playing it.

Kinda interesting I pulled that out instead of something horrendous (which I expected) xD