Chord tones

[monroe55]

I been tryin to understand 'bout them things called chord tones. Been thumbin( pun) through talkbass forums on the subject... Tryin to sift through the 3part Jeff Berlin thread to find stuff. Anyway, it seems chord tones are real important to "understand" in order to enhance my playin. Appears to me like they're just a 1-3-5-7 variation of each different chord they're named after. What do i need to learn 'bout these chord tones? How do i practice them for absorbtion? Whats the difference 'tween a chord tone and an arpegio?

[odin70]

When you play the chord tones like e.g 1 3 5 7 you play the chord as an arpeggio.

Start with triads. Major and minor in every key with their inversions.

C major: C E G, E G C, G C E

C minor: C Eb G, Eb G C, G C Eb

Then do the same in all keys. Use the circle of fourth

C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C

If you have a piano you should learn to play the chords on the piano and then the arpeggios on your bass. Learn to sing them as well. This will strengthen you ear.

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by monroe55

I been tryin to understand 'bout them things called chord tones. Been thumbin( pun) through talkbass forums on the subject... Tryin to sift through the 3part Jeff Berlin thread to find stuff. Anyway, it seems chord tones are real important to "understand" in order to enhance my playin. Appears to me like they're just a 1-3-5-7 variation of each different chord they're named after. What do i need to learn 'bout these chord tones? How do i practice them for absorbtion? Whats the difference 'tween a chord tone and an arpegio?

I could be mistaken, but I think all Jeff was getting at was - thinking of your lines in terms of the notes of the chords can be a good/effective way to play at times. There's not a whole lot of magic or deep thought to what he was trying to communicate. I think.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by monroe55

I been tryin to understand 'bout them things called chord tones. Been thumbin( pun) through talkbass forums on the subject... Tryin to sift through the 3part Jeff Berlin thread to find stuff. Anyway, it seems chord tones are real important to "understand" in order to enhance my playin. Appears to me like they're just a 1-3-5-7 variation of each different chord they're named after. What do i need to learn 'bout these chord tones? How do i practice them for absorbtion? Whats the difference 'tween a chord tone and an arpegio?

Chord tone and an arpeggio - as both are made from the chord's notes they are a lot alike.

From the top, ready 1 and 2 and 3 .......
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm
Notice a major chord is made of the 1-3-5 notes of the chords tonic scale. A minor chord is made from the 1-b3-5 notes. Every minor chord has a flatted 3rd and every major chord has a natural 3rd.

Fake chord tells you to play a C chord - you have the option of all roots, or root - 5. Not going to get into that. Chord tones for the following:
C = R-3-5-3 ascending or 8-7-6-5 descending.
Cm = R-b3-5-b3 ascending or 8-7-6-5 descending. OK you get the idea of ascending or descending. Let's move on.
C7 = R-3-5-b7
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cdim = R-b3-b5 and bb7 if you like.
C/G With any slash chord we play only the slash so grab a R(G)-3-5-3
Two chords in one measure - if 4/4 time you only have room for a R-5 for both chords, i.e. you only have 4 beats for this measure so you can only play 4 notes.
Cmaj7add9 Up to you but I never go beyond 7ths so I'd ignore the add9 and play just the Cmaj7.

If you run across something you do not recognize this will help:
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhous.../index_rb.html

Pause for questions.......

[Badong]

Originally Posted by odin70

When you play the chord tones like e.g 1 3 5 7 you play the chord as an arpeggio.

Start with triads. Major and minor in every key with their inversions.

C major: C E G, E G C, G C E

C minor: C Eb G, Eb G C, G C Eb

Then do the same in all keys. Use the circle of fourth

C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb B E A D G C

If you have a piano you should learn to play the chords on the piano and then the arpeggios on your bass. Learn to sing them as well. This will strengthen you ear.

I think it would be better to study 7th chords, i.e.

Major - C E G B
Minor - C Eb G Bb

I prefer to start with scales, understanding the relationship of each note to the root. It's easier to build linear lines out of scales than chord tones. If you know which scale goes with which chord, then you know all the notes you can use over that chord. My two cents.

[monroe55]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Chord tone and an arpeggio - as both are made from the chord's notes they are a lot alike.

From the top, ready 1 and 2 and 3 .......
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm
Notice a major chord is made of the 1-3-5 notes of the chords tonic scale. A minor chord is made from the 1-b3-5 notes. Every minor chord has a flatted 3rd and every major chord has a natural 3rd.

Fake chord tells you to play a C chord - you have the option of all roots, or root - 5. Not going to get into that. Chord tones for the following:
C = R-3-5-3 ascending or R-7-6-5 descending.
Cm = R-b3-5-b3 ascending or R-7-6-5 descending. OK you get the idea of ascending or descending. Let's move on.
C7 = R-3-5-b7
Cm7 = R-b3-5-b7
Cmaj7 = R-3-5-7
Cdim = R-b3-b5 and bb7 if you like.
C/G With any slash chord we play only the slash so grab a R(G)-3-5-3
Two chords in one measure - if 4/4 time you only have room for a R-5 for both chords, i.e. you only have 4 beats for this measure so you can only play 4 notes.
Cmaj7add9 Up to you but I never go beyond 7ths so I'd ignore the add9 and play just the Cmaj7.

Pause for questions.......

I already know all this stuff. I know all kinds of arpegios, chords,scales and modes, backwards, forwards, groups of 3,4,5, up-down the neck etc. Just dont know what its all for. Thought a chord tone was something special. Seems like its just another word for 1-3-5-7.
I just want to learn how to improvise when soloing...well.

[Shovelbone]

Originally Posted by monroe55

I already know all this stuff. I know all kinds of arpegios, chords,scales and modes, backwards, forwards, groups of 3,4,5, up-down the neck etc. Just dont know what its all for. Thought a chord tone was something special. Seems like its just another word for 1-3-5-7.
I just want to learn how to improvise when soloing...well.

If you check out this month's Bass Player there is a great article by John Goldsby about triad architecture. That might be a good place to start.
But to reference your statement about "chord tone being something special", IMHO practicing scales and modes with no understanding of chord tones will leave a big whole in understanding music. Chord tones are the individual notes that, when played simultaneously, create a chord.
I have to admit that when I first started studying music theory the term 'chord tone' confused me as well.

[MalcolmAmos]

I just want to learn how to improvise when soloing...well

Well your melody should include chord tones, however just chords alone get rather boring.

Start with pentatonic over the chord changes. The pentatonic will give you three chord tones and two safe passing notes. What is so special about chord tones. Well - the chords move the verse along from rest to tension, to climax then to resolution and back to rest. That's kinda important. For the melody and the chords to sound good together the melody and the chord should share some of the same notes, basic rule of harmonization, i.e. The melody and the chord progression should have some of the same notes in play at the same time. So it's a good idea to draw your melody notes from the chord's notes you are playing over.

As for the ...well. Do not just run the pentatonic scale in scale order. Make melodic phrases from those 5 notes. Two close notes then a leap of at least a 3rd. What you land on starts another phrase. Which is important - a string of notes is noise melodic phrases work better.

What you need to end up with is melody. Now that is another story into itself.

[JTE]

A. Start with learning the basic chord out to the seventh (four-note chords) from both the root AND the intervals that make the chord :
1. Major is 1 3 5 7 and it's (from the bottom up) a major third, a minor third and a major third.
2. Minor is 1 b3 5 7; a minor 3, then a major, then a major 3.
3. Dominant 7 (generally just called a "seventh") is 1 3 5 b7; a maj 3, a min 3, and a min 3.
4. Augmented is 1 3 #5 (only three notes because they repeat); all major thirds.
5. Diminished is 1 b3 b5 bb7 (and learn WHY it's a double flat 7 and not the 6); all minor thirds.

"Learn" here means you can figure all these out in any key. You should be able to work out in your head, without an instrument, any of these. You need to be able to work out that Amaj7 is A C# E G#, that D7 is D F# A C, that Adim is A C Eb Gb, etc.

Then be able find and play them over at least two octaves ascending & descending. You also want to be able to find the notes below the root- not just knowing the root to root.

To USE the, you don't limit yourself to only chord tones, but use them as your targets for the main notes to shape your line. That's the part the mode fans miss- the chord tones are the target notes, and use your ear and taste to shape the rest of the line.

Do NOT get a chart that shows you where to put your fingers or lays out all the chords. You'll learn them and understand this if you work it out yourself instead of just learning patterns. Then look at basslines you alredy know and see how they fit the chord tones. Dig how the opening riff of "Badge" is an Amin arpeggio for example.

John

[Rick Robins]

From 12 notes we make scales from scales we make chords.
Jeff's method
http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jef...-the-Bass-1987

[odin70]

Originally Posted by monroe55

I already know all this stuff. I know all kinds of arpegios, chords,scales and modes, backwards, forwards, groups of 3,4,5, up-down the neck etc. Just dont know what its all for. Thought a chord tone was something special. Seems like its just another word for 1-3-5-7.
I just want to learn how to improvise when soloing...well.

If you already know all this stuff. Why waste our time?
Go ahead and work.

..If you "know everything" and at the same time dont have a clue..Get a teacher..or at least buy a book on the subject. There is thousands of them

[odin70]

Originally Posted by Badong

I think it would be better to study 7th chords, i.e.

Why is that?

[monroe55]

Originally Posted by odin70

If you "know everything" and at the same time dont have a clue..Get a teacher..or at least buy a book on the subject. There is thousands of them

Lol. Thanks man. Thats exactly how I feel sometimes about this. I know all this stuff but dont have a clue what to do with it. Frustrating!!

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. You've definately sparked some glimmer of understanding for me.

[monroe55]

Originally Posted by Rick Robins

From 12 notes we make scales from scales we make chords.
Jeff's method
http://www.scribd.com/doc/387695/Jef...-the-Bass-1987

Yeh i stumbled upon this scrib before. What am i supposed to do with it? Whats it teaching me other than the different variations of 1-3-5-7?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by monroe55

Yeh i stumbled upon this scrib before. What am i supposed to do with it? Whats it teaching me other than the different variations of 1-3-5-7?

Notice its using the bass clef. Thus it's teaching ways to develop a bass line riff over specific chords.

Since you already know all that -- that is not going to help you improvise a solo. Improvising a solo is melody, treble clef stuff. This will help with melody:

Notice the three note phrasing, and the wave action of the melody line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq7zF...eature=related

http://smu.edu/totw/melody.htm

http://www.archive.org/details/exerc...melo01goetgoog

[Badong]

Originally Posted by odin70

Why is that?

More possibilities for creating lines and a better understanding of chord functionality.

The 3rd and 7th of the chord act as leading tones and dictate the behavior of the harmony and its function within a given key. This is why a V chord sounds different than a IV chord in diatonic harmony and so on.

[Michael Campbel]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Notice its using the bass clef. Thus it's teaching ways to develop a bass line riff over specific chords.

Since you already know all that -- that is not going to help you improvise a solo. Improvising a solo is melody, treble clef stuff.

I can't say I've ever heard of the clef being an indicator of melody (or lack thereof).

[monroe55]

So I got the Jeff Berlin BP magazine article about the chord tone exercises, and the scrib you guys found on line from that chord tone bass book Jeff wrote.
How am I supposed to practice this information? Should I be memorizing each exercise on the fretboard and just practice them patterns up and down the neck? Like a technique builder. Should I be practicing executing the patterns over simple chord changes (Autum Leaves, etc).I know Im suppoed to listen real well to how each exercise sounds and why the chord tone notes in the chord affect eachother the way they do. I have basic knowledge of theory like I wrote earlier (scales, modes, chords, intervals), just wondering how to approach this material. Will it help me with walkinh bass lines in jazz songs?

[JTE]

Don't memorize exercises on the fingerboard if that means just memorizing the shapes. You need to think it through as you practice it. So, the Jeff Berlin stuff starts with showing you a Cmaj7 starting on the root, then moving it all over the neck and changing your starting point to any note of the chord. That's critical because music doesn't start and end on the root. But you need to be thinking this as you practice it. So you're thinking "Root 3 5 7" then "3 5 7 root" etc. And singing it- sing "root" etc. When you've covered the whole neck for Cmaj7, then do Cmin7, etc. through Jeff's example.

Then he moves to the circle of fourths. Do the same with all the exercises in that book- think out loud what you're playing. Figure it out in different keys instead of just playing what's written there. You need to be able to find out for yourself what the b3 of Ab is instead of just putting your finger on the fret three higher than where you found Ab.

Then I'd take something like "Autumn Leaves" and practice through the changes. Start with just outlining the chords from the root. Then work out a way to move smoothly from one chord to the next by KNOWING where the closest chord tone is when the chord changes. For example, if you're dealing with Dmin7 to G9 and your last note before the change is C, the closest note of the G chord is either B or D, right? You gotta OWN that and be able for your fingers to find it.

This will help you learn to walk because the chord tones are the targets for good notes. They're the framework on which the music lies, so you need to know exactly what the skeleton is before you start adding to it. Like in clay sculpture, you need to know what the armature is before you start throwing the clay on it.

John

[monroe55]

Awesome. That was a nice explanation. Cant thank you enough for that. That's gonna help a lot.
I kind of figured it was more than just memorizing the finger patterns. Looks like I got some work to do.