chordal notes/tones

[bassinplace]

I am currently working in the Ed Friedland Bass Method book and I am at an exercise where he refers to "chord tones". I must not have picked up on something earlier in the book because I'm not exactly sure what he's referring to. Is it arpeggios? Maybe the 1,3,5,7 configuration? I also saw an interview with Carol Kaye where she referred to the importance of knowing your "chordal notes". Is she speaking of the same thing? What are they exactly? Thanks!

[onlyclave]

Chordal tones simply means the pitch members of the chord. For example in a C7 you have C E G Bb. F is not a chordal tone in C7.

Carol Kaye is saying the same thing. If you see a symbol like G7#5#9 you know that the chordal tones are G B D# F A#. C is not a chordal tone of that chord.

Arpeggios are playing the members of a chord separately, that is, not all at the same time. 1-3-5-7 is an arpeggio, but only when you play the notes one at a time.

[bassinplace]

Good answer, thanks! Looks like I need to get myself more familiar with chord structure...

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by bassinplace

Good answer, thanks! Looks like I need to get myself more familiar with chord structure...

That should have been Chapter 1 in your book. Seriously, without a basic understanding of harmony, you're not going to be able to progress very much.

Nothing personal; it's true for everyone. Even if you can intuitively grasp "what sounds right" and "what doesn't," it helps to know why it is accepted.

"Theory" is just an attempt to explain the whys and wherefores of what is already established, so that patterns can be extrapolated.

[skyneed]

oh I watched the same video! and I have the same question

I'd really like to learn a bit more on the "chordal notes" and the jazz patterns...

[JTE]

I'm not familiar with Ed's book, but Carol Kaye does talk about the "chordal scale". She's simply refering to the harmonized scale.

Basically you need to know how to build chords. To me that means a LOT more than just being able to play an arpeggio over two octaves. In fact, the physcial aspect of playing the arpeggio is the least important part. You need to know basic harmony theory. There's a progression that I think is important. So, from an earlier post...

It is far more useful to understand chord construction than to memorize all those "Scales A and B go with chord X" formulas.

I'd say the logical progression learning music theory is this:

1.) Learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) Learn how basic chords are built from the major scale- e.g Major is 1,3,5, minor is 1,b3, 5, etc.
3.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of any diatonic major scale by building chords / stacking thirds.
4.) Learn arppegios/chord tones
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
6.) Learn the Natural Minor scale (a/k/a Aeolian mode) and the dominant scale (a/k/a Mixolydian); And learn how these relate to the major scale (i.e.; its the V and vi mode)
7.) Understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
8.) Dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

And to expand on the first two points above...

I. Do you know the major scale- that is-
A. You know the whole-step and half-step formula for making a major scale
B. You know how to figure out the notes in any major key, using the correct enharmonics
C. You know what it sounds like- you know what the next note will sound like before you play it
D. You can find it and play it over two octaves ascending and descending in any key

II. Do you know how to build the basic chords- that is, you KNOW
A. A major chord is 1 3 5
B. A minor chord is 1 b3 5
C. A 7th chord is 1 3 5 b7
D. A minor 7 is 1 b3 5 b7
E. A major 7 is 1 3 5 7
F. A diminished chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7 (and you understand why it's called the bb7, not the 6)
G. An augmented chord is 1 3 #5

III. You understand and know the chords that come from the scale when you harmonize it- that is you KNOW not only that the chords are:
I Maj7
ii min7
iii min7
IV Maj 7
V 7
vi min7
vii min7 b5 (or half-diminished)
BUT, you know WHY!!!

IV. You can work out how to play the arpeggio over two octaves ascending and descending the chords in any key. You don't have to memorize them (heck, I hate memorization), but you can figure them out and they make sense.

V. You know how a ii V I defines a key center


Bass playing is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first, but my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics. Even if you're playing some guitar oriented riff-rock, each riff is going to imply a chord of some kind.

"BUT HOW DO I APPLY THIS THEORY TO MY PLAYING?"
85%+ of the time, you will be going from root note to root note as the chords change. The trick is learning how to do it with a groove and feel that is stylistically appropriate to the song. The best way to reach stylistic understanding is to learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords. I cannot emphasize this idea enough: The answer to this common question is to LEARN AND ANALYZE BASS LINES BY THE MASTERS. Once you undertand what Jamerson (for example) did with a particular set of changes, these ideas become added to your tool set, to use, change, blend and create your own voice.

[skyneed]

Thank you very much for your advice, JTE!

[MalcolmAmos]

This may come in handy:
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

[Kimpini]

I say you throw away all of your books and just read all of JTE's posts, I did it a long time ago

[skyneed]

Originally Posted by Kimpini

I say you throw away all of your books and just read all of JTE's posts, I did it a long time ago

I'd love to....where can I find them??

[mizmor]

You can read a persons posts by clicking their user name and clicking user profile. A link for read all posts by JTE should be there. Click that and there you go..

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by Kimpini

I say you throw away all of your books and just read all of JTE's posts, I did it a long time ago

+1.

That was a great post JTE.

[tlr1293]

http://www.studybass.com/

[kpeluso]

+1 on top of that. I think the mental block ive been struggling with just faded away by reading that post by JTE. Off to find his other posts now.

Originally Posted by fearceol

+1.

That was a great post JTE.

[E2daGGurl]

From what I can tell from reading your post (but not all the responses), you're on the right track.

And from what I can tell from reading *some* of the responses - pay no attention, you're just checking terminology. You've already learnt it.

[bassinplace]

I just got back to this thread but, wow, thanks for all the info, JTE! I think I better get back to studying now, my plate seems to be very full...

[the_hook]

Just read JTE's post...dead on. I have a teacher now and we've covered most of what JTE wrote, so that's comforting to know I'm on the right track. Now back to the woodshed....