Chords and Chord Progression Help

Fleahugger · #1 04-18-2002, 05:05 AM

I am kind of confused at the moment, if I were walk over the arpeggio of say, for example C7 (1st, 3rd, 5th, flat 7th and octave.) would it be the same as Cmaj7? I'm getting confused because I don't know if the a chord is is automatically a Major even if it isn't stated. If I were to play a Bbminor7 arpeggio over a Bbminor chord would it still work out? Oh, and does anyone know how chord progression works roughly, I only really know a bit, eg. C-

I. C
II. Dm
III. Em7
IV. F
V. G7
VI. Am
VII. Bbm flat 5

Thankyou very much in advance.

P.S I have no idea what I'm going on about so please feel free to make corrections!

thrash_jazz · #2 04-18-2002, 08:36 AM

Hi there,

C7 is not the same as Cmaj7! If you were to walk over that chord, the line might be similar depending on the key of the song. If you are referring to simply the chord and not the whole song, you would use C Mixolydian for C7 and C Major for Cmaj7.

As for the example of a Bmin chord - your basic chord contains the triad - in this case, B, D (b3) and F# (5). If the chord is simply a Bmin, then these are the notes it contains. If you play a Bmin7, you are adding a completely new chord tone and changing the "colour" of the sound. Depending on what's going on in the song (ie, if the next chord were close to A) it could work out quite nicely. Trust your ears!

Chord progressions depend on the key you're in. To figure them out, start on the root of each chord and build triads (1, 3, 5) for each chord, using only notes from the key you're in.

For example, in the key of C Major, the I chord has C, E and G in its triad, creating a Cmaj chord. The ii chord has D, F and A in its triad, but F is a minor 3rd up from D, so the ii chord is a Dmin. And so on. Try this again for C Major - I think you may find that your previous example was not correct.

Try not to rely on formulas for this, because the progression will differ depending on what type of scale you're using.

[edit: Thanks Ed!

]

stephanie · #3 04-18-2002, 01:30 PM

And just to add to this, C7 would be called, well, C7 or C dominant 7. Like was previously stated, C7 and Cmaj7 are two different chords. In that the 7th of the dominant 7th chord is flat while the major 7th isn't.

Wrong Robot · #4 04-18-2002, 02:48 PM

Nice and simple

C7,Cdom7 = C dominant 7th -> 1,3,5,b7
Cmaj7, CM7 = C major 7th -> 1,3,5,7
C-7, Cmin7,Cm7 = C minor 7th -> 1,b3,5,7
Cdim7, Cº = C diminished 7th -> 1,b3,b5,bb7
CØ = CHalf diminised 7th -> 1,b3,5,b7

Another symbol for Major 7th is a little triangle, which won't show up when I type it(its showing up as a ?)

I realize this is a little redundant to the aformentioned information, but It maybe be helpful for follow-up questions

Mike Dimin · #5 04-18-2002, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
First of all, if we're going to use the symbology of functional harmony, let's get it right. You signify a chord based on a major triad by using upper case (I, IV, V) and minor using lower case (ii, iii, vi, vii).

Ed,
....and I thought you were a jazzer.

That upper and lower case stuff might be cool in classical music, but I rarely see it in jazz charts - just usually a minus sign to denote minor.

Fleahugger · #6 04-18-2002, 05:18 PM

Thankyou very much, I was wondering about the arpeggios and stuff because I have just started learning to read chord charts and for the moment my teacher wants me to walk over the arpeggios so I can learn them properly. If I wanted to use more than the triad for Cmaj7 would it be alright to add the 8th to it (being 1-3-5-7-8).

And with the chord progression can the chords I, II, III, IV, V, VI and VII go in any order and still fit?

Richard Lindsey · #7 04-18-2002, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Dimin

Ed,
....and I thought you were a jazzer.

That upper and lower case stuff might be cool in classical music, but I rarely see it in jazz charts - just usually a minus sign to denote minor.

Yeah, but it's really two different things. Ed's talking about conventional representation of harmonic function, you're talking about writing charts.

Sorta (loosely) like the difference between talking about scientific variables (x, y, P, t1/2, r, N) and talking about actual quantities (1.5, 3, 27.296).

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #8 04-19-2002, 01:32 AM

Speak of the devil:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...threadid=43479

jazzbo · #9 04-19-2002, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
Speak of the devil:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...threadid=43479

Chris is the man! What an excellent thread he created. Did you notice the time he put into it. I mean, check out the changes in font types, with bold lettering, smaller sized fonts, colored fonts. Then, he alphabetized the links. Cool.

Of course, he did have a couple of problems with format. Notice the "General" after "Transcribing Chord Progressions" isn't spaced correctly, and the link to "Transcribing Basslines to Standards" isn't on the next line as it should be.

It's evident Chris is quite an excellent prof., but the question remains, is his attention to detail starting to waiver here in the late parts of the semester?!

lump · #10 04-19-2002, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzbo
It's evident Chris is quite an excellent prof., but the question remains, is his attention to detail starting to waiver here in the late parts of the semester?!

Oh yeah. I can't believe he didn't grade Wrong Robot's chords (sorry, WR).

What the hell is my tuition for? Get the coed off your lap, put the bottle of Scotch back in the filing cabinet and get with the program, Professor.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #11 04-19-2002, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lump

What the hell is my tuition for? Get the coed off your lap, put the bottle of Scotch back in the filing cabinet and get with the program, Professor.

Well my "coed" is in her third month of a semi-difficult pregnancy, thank you very much...so I'm not around as much as I used to be. BUT...I would like to take the opportunity to thank JOESPAZZ for sending me a bunch of theory links to get the ball rolling on that links thread. Paul is considering adding a DB theory forum because of that thread, so we may eventually end up with a good place to keep all of that stuff.

jazzbo · #12 04-19-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Well my "coed" is in her third month of a semi-difficult pregnancy...

****. I hope that everything is going okay.

lump · #13 04-19-2002, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzbo

****. I hope that everything is going okay.

Ditto, a lot. Please forgive my bad timing.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #14 04-20-2002, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lump

Ditto, a lot. Please forgive my bad timing.

Whoa! Nothing to feel bad about... just a lot of fatigue and unpredictable barfing fits that come out of nowhere. I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it. My bad! I'm sure everything will be fine...I just wanted to clarify why I haven't been around too much and have been kinda grumpy lately.

How's about we talk about chords some more?

lump · #15 04-20-2002, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
... just a lot of fatigue and unpredictable barfing fits that come out of nowhere.

Yeah, OT does that to me too.

Glad to hear it's just the "normal" hell of pregancy.

And not to embarrass Wrong Robot (typos, I'm sure), what I wuz getting at was a couple of his chords need additional flatification:

C-7, Cmin7,Cm7 = C minor 7th -> 1,b3,5,b7
CØ = CHalf diminished 7th -> 1,b3,b5,b7

I have to straighten picture frames too.

Good luck on the theory forum!