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  #1  
Old 03-26-2010, 03:43 PM
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chords and keys

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I'm a newb to music theory, and I've been trying to learn it (on piano, no less) and I understand that when there's a C minor chord being played, I can solo over the top of it with a C minor scale because the chord itself is just select tones from the scale. What I'm having trouble understanding is what makes certain chords sound good together in terms of the key of the song? Are the tonics of the chords in a progression related to the key of the song?

Also, if a song has multiple chords in its progression, is there any kind of scale that I can use to solo through all of the chords? Right now I just find out what chord is being played, and then play its scale, but it seems like there should be one scale you can use for a whole song.

Sorry if this seems disjointed or incoherent, or at the very least poorly worded. I just want to understand how the chords in a song relate to its key because right now I don't understand the relationship.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
I'm a newb to music theory, and I've been trying to learn it (on piano, no less) and I understand that when there's a C minor chord being played, I can solo over the top of it with a C minor scale because the chord itself is just select tones from the scale. What I'm having trouble understanding is what makes certain chords sound good together in terms of the key of the song? Are the tonics of the chords in a progression related to the key of the song?

Also, if a song has multiple chords in its progression, is there any kind of scale that I can use to solo through all of the chords? Right now I just find out what chord is being played, and then play its scale, but it seems like there should be one scale you can use for a whole song.

Sorry if this seems disjointed or incoherent, or at the very least poorly worded. I just want to understand how the chords in a song relate to its key because right now I don't understand the relationship.
that would be theory 101.....having a firm grasp of it is what you need...there are times when you can do that and times when you cannot,and countless exceptions
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:23 PM
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With the blues you can play one scale over the whole lot. What makes all the chords sound good together in a key is the fact that all the notes that make that chord fit into that key. For example in E minor, you can play and Em chord, next would be a F# which could be minor as the minor 3rd is an A, which fits into the scale. However the 5th is a C# which doesn't fit. You could either just get over that or make it a flat 5 chord which would give you a C, making F#mb5 fit into Eminor. I think that's just a diminished chord right? Only just figured that out haha. An F#dim fits into E. If you're using a blues scale in Eminor you also have a Bb so it could be an F#b5. That's an F#major flat 5. Or, once again you not pay attention to the C# not fitting. Then there's G. If you're using the blues scale, once again it could be G major, with the B and D fitting into E minor, or a G minor with the Bb and D fitting in. Etc etc. Don't forget the 7's as well. Major and dominant etc. I hope this is of some help. If not, ignore it. It's probably all over the place and hard to follow. Just in a bit of a hurry. Also listening to Thelonious Monk. He always makes my head go too fast for my body. Ha. Peace
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  #4  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:34 PM
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Go to the library and get a book on music theory. Basically, if a song is in C, when you form a D chord with the notes from the C scale, you get a Dm. Similarly for E, you get Em. When you get to F, it goes back to major.

If you extend the chords to the 7, you get:

Cmaj7
Dm7
Em7
Fmaj7
G7
Am7
Bdim7

At this stage, you may be better off playing mostly chord tones rather than scale tones.
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
I'm a newb to music theory, and I've been trying to learn it (on piano, no less) and I understand that when there's a C minor chord being played, I can solo over the top of it with a C minor scale because the chord itself is just select tones from the scale. What I'm having trouble understanding is what makes certain chords sound good together?
I stopped your question here. Piano is a good way to "see" theory. What makes certain chords sound good together. All chords in a specific key will sound good with each other. Why? They are made from notes found within that specific key's scale. Chords in the key of C are made from the C scale's notes. One of the great WOW's of music is that melody notes and the chords used under them should share some of the same notes together. When they do they harmonize. Yep, it's that simple. That sharing of notes unfolds through out Western music. If your melody line and your chord progression share some of the same notes it'll harmonize and sound good.
Quote:
Also, if a song has multiple chords in its progression, is there any kind of scale that I can use to solo through all of the chords? Right now I just find out what chord is being played, and then play its scale, but it seems like there should be one scale you can use for a whole song.
Like notes --- If the song is using the C, F and G chords Those chords will have these notes in them:
C= C, E, G
F= F, A, C
G= G, B, D
What scale has all of those notes, not one more, just those notes? C scale or C, E, F, G, A, B, C. So you could use the C major scale over that entire song. Grab hold.

You could use the .....
C major scale over the entire song.
C major pentatonic over the entire song.
C Blues over the entire song. Some of the notes will not match, but, it's the Blues which takes liberties and we have grown to like it.
F major pentatonic over the F chord.
G Major pentatonic over the G chord. Now if the song had one of the keys minor chords in the progression, say the Am chord --- the A Minor pentatonic scale over that Am chord would work, if it had the Dm chord, yep, the D Minor pentatonic would work over the Dm chord.

Why? We talked about the C major scale having notes found in the C, F and G chords. So your melody line is going to harmonize very nicely with those three chords as all of the notes within the chords come from the C major scale.

F major pentatonic has these notes. F, G, A, C, D. All three of the chord tones in the F chord and two safe passing notes. The passing notes of G and D are found in the C Scale.

G major pentatonic has these notes. G, A, B, D, E. Again all three of the chord tones in the G chord and two safe passing notes. So when you gather your notes for your solo; chord tones on the down beat (1 and 3) passing notes on the up beat works great.

Let's look at that Am chord. Am = the A, C, E notes. The A minor pentatonic scale is the made up of the A, B, C, E, F chord so......... like notes.

Quote:
Sorry if this seems disjointed or incoherent, or at the very least poorly worded. I just want to understand how the chords in a song relate to its key because right now I don't understand the relationship.
If this did not do it ask specific questions - someone will answer.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 03-26-2010 at 07:51 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-26-2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt View Post
Also, if a song has multiple chords in its progression, is there any kind of scale that I can use to solo through all of the chords?
As a newbie, I myself just use the root note of the chord. I might even get adventurous and use the 3rd or 5th. If the chord progression is C D G, I could play those roots in each measure.

Quote:
Right now I just find out what chord is being played, and then play its scale, but it seems like there should be one scale you can use for a whole song.
Not necessarily. Some songs have momentary key changes. The Beatles were notorious for that.

[edit] As usual Malcolm's info is spot on for 99.9% of songs. There's just those few "Gotchas!"

Quote:
Sorry if this seems disjointed or incoherent, or at the very least poorly worded. I just want to understand how the chords in a song relate to its key because right now I don't understand the relationship.
I think you have keys, chords and scales kind of mixed up. But it's really easy to grasp, especially if you see charts. Check out these links http://musiced.about.com/od/musicthe...ctheory.htm#s2

Start with •Major Scales •Minor Scales •Major Triads •Minor Triads •I - IV - V Chord Pattern
•Playing the I - IV - V Chord Pattern

Then move on to the other topics. That site is quite good.
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Last edited by Minotauros : 03-26-2010 at 07:38 PM.
  #7  
Old 03-26-2010, 07:42 PM
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Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory & Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Composition. Great books. Very well written and a lot of useful info. Buy them.

Also, go to musictheory.net and check out the stuff there. The tutorial on roman numeral analysis will be good.
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:16 PM
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Just noticed -- KB9WYZ this is KE5HZI

73's and all those good numbers.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 03-26-2010 at 09:18 PM.
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