Chords vs Scales.

[JumboJack]

Ok hopefully I can make sense with this question.

When coming up with a bass line should I be more concerned with the scale or the individual cords?
I was playing a song and then started to take a look at it.

The main riff is played in three different positions over three cords.B-A-E,major chords but the riff has a minor 7th in it.There is no minor 7th in major chords and there is no minor 7th in the B major scale.But there is one in the natural minor scale.

Am I over thinking this?It's just one note.

This is the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLx-p...os=l0kA7tBtJQI

[Shakin-Slim]

The rules, after being thoroughly learnt and adequately put into use by the player, are then made to be bent. Does the minor 7th sound good? It is probably the desired effect to create a dissonance. It's like chromatic notes in a walking bass line. Some seem to fit right in to connect to scalar notes, as a passing note. Some make your ear twist around and confuse the brain. Which sounds very cool indeed, in my opinion. You may be over thinking it. Just be tasteful, use moderation. Break rules when you feel like it.

[Billnc]

Minor 7th over a major chord is a dominant 7th It is the V of E, A is the IV of E.

If the Chords are in the order you typed it's the same progression as Bad Moon on the Rise or Sweet Home Alabama etc. I bVII IV, pretty common.

[Badong]

Chords are derived stacking the notes of a scale (every other note). If you have the right scale you can use any of the notes from that scale over that chord (some sound better than others depending on many factors).

Minor, dominant, and half diminished chords all have minor 7ths.

Hope this helps.

[JTE]

If it's a riff (e.g. like "Sunshine Of Your Love" where the riff just moves to another root) then you play the riff. If you're working in chordal music like most pop music, then START with the chord tones as your main target notes. If you can see a coonection between the chords that's all in one key, then that scale can tie them together. But don't waste your time with a separate scale for each chord- if that's what it comes to, just use chord tones.

If the riff has a b7 over a major chord, that makes the chord a dominant 7.

John

[Badong]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

Then it's B mixolydian: B Db Eb E Gb A Bb

Fail.

Mixolydian is a mode, not a scale and B is a sharp key (no flats):

B C# D# E F# G# A

[JumboJack]

Wow.Awesome.Thanks guy's!

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by Badong

Fail.

Mixolydian is a mode, not a scale and B is a sharp key (no flats):

B C# D# E F# G# A

I deleted my post for one considering I failed to realize the B mixolydian contains A major 7th... and no fail... either way B contains THE SAME AMOUNT of sharps and flats, thus it can be used either way. If we are discussing minor 7th, then flat names are more appropriate. And yes, I know it's a mode, check some of my other posts on theory, but I'm trying to speak on the level of the OP... going into detail about modes would be a fail...

[Febs]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

I deleted my post for one considering I failed to realize the B mixolydian contains A major 7th...

No, it doesn't.

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by Febs

No, it doesn't.

True dat. Sorry people, I'm out of it today... long day, but I still stand by my statement saying it has the same amount of sharps and flats lol

EDIT: no more theory threads for me tonight

[VinKreepo]

In attempt to clear up the crap I started

B major: B Eb Gb

E major: E Ab B

A major: A Db E

A minor 7th: A D E Ab

A B Db D Eb E Gb Ab A

A major with a Eb

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

In attempt to clear up the crap I started

B major: B Eb Gb

E major: E Ab B

A major: A Db E

A minor 7th: A D E Ab

A B Db D Eb E Gb Ab A

A major with a Eb

Please, please correct the spelling of all of your chords. It's the same sounding note, however, they're essential different chords w/ different theoretical functions. For example your "B major" is B, Eb, Gb, what you have spelled out is an Eb augmented chord - not a B major chord. You have all the roots correct, however, to create a chord from the given roots you need to stack in thirds in order to have the appropriate chord spelled correctly.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

In attempt to clear up the crap I started

B major: B Eb Gb

E major: E Ab B

A major: A Db E

A minor 7th: A D E Ab

A B Db D Eb E Gb Ab A

A major with a Eb

Your really mixing things up, B has D# F# in fact every flat is wrong. You must use EVERY (not yelling) letter in a scale.

I play with a very good guitarist artistically, and he gets me with this same type stuff, really confusing.

[Badong]

I shouldn't have been so harsh. However, in general when I'm not sure about a subject I try to listen carefully rather than speak. That way I learn and do not pass on incorrect information.

[TheBasicBassist]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

In attempt to clear up the crap I started

B major: B Eb Gb

E major: E Ab B

A major: A Db E

A minor 7th: A D E Ab

A B Db D Eb E Gb Ab A

A major with a Eb

Here's the correct spelling, for anyone that needs it.

Bmaj: B D# F#
Emaj: E G# B
Amaj: A C# E
Amin7: A C E G

A correctly spelled A major scale: A B C# D E F# G# A

[LM Bass]

Here's an easy way to help with triad spelling:

There are only 7 triads-
CEG, DFA, EGB, FAC, GBD, ACE and BDF

add flats and sharps to change keys and triad qualities-
C minor is still a CEG, just make the E into Eb.
C# major is still a CEG, only now it's C# E# G#

thus B mixolydian is
B D#F#, C# E G#, D#F#A, E G#B, F#A C#, G#B D#, A C#E

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by TheBasicBassist

Here's the correct spelling, for anyone that needs it.

Bmaj: B D# F#
Emaj: E G# B
Amaj: A C# E
Amin7: A C E G

A correctly spelled A major scale: A B C# D E F# G# A

Ugh, I'm so lost today... thanks man... I'm outta this thread lol...

Maybe I'm outta of it cause my bro decided to trade some dude an airsoft gun for a pellet gun instead of the yamaha bass and peavey amp the dude was offering... sad moment

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by LM Bass

Here's an easy way to help with triad spelling:

There are only 7 triads-
CEG, DFA, EGB, FAC, GBD, ACE and BDF

add flats and sharps to change keys and triad qualities-
C minor is still a CEG, just make the E into Eb.
C# major is still a CEG, only now it's C# E# G#

thus B mixolydian is
B D#F#, C# E G#, D#F#A, E G#B, F#A C#, G#B D#, A C#E

Yeah thanks man. I know how to do this crap, I just not doing well with it today. I'm usually the one teaching people how to do this stuff at my college, but now I just look like an idiot tsktsk

This is karma getting me back for playing grunge lately instead of jazz haha

[MalcolmAmos]

Is it a sharp or a flat? If I remember correctly that depends on several things. 1) We should not mix sharps and flats in the same scale. 2) We should use (account for) all 7 notes and 3) we should not have two of the same notes in a scale, i.e. 4 and #4 or 5 and b5.

I use spell check when writing words and this chart when I'm writing music. Help yourself...... It's just cut and paste...

Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales...................Home work, why does F have the Bb?
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb
Memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos. Order of the scales with sharps.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds. Order of the sharps.
Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked. Order of the scales with flats.
The key signature is showing three sharps. What scale has three sharps? C has none, G has one, D has two, A has three. Which sharps? Fat = F#, Cat = C# and Go = G# so the A major scale has three sharps, F#, C# and G#.

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

[Badong]

^Yikes!