Chruch hymnal bass help needed, what to play?

[eaaa410]

I have been playing in a small group for the casual service at church. This consists of me, an acoustic guitar, keboard, and singer leading the congregation. We are playing the same hymns from the pew hymnal that are played by the organ and sung by the choir in the traditional service. Albeit there are five different hymns each week that I have to deal with. The problem is that the only musical guidance I have is the actual hymnal in standard musical notation for the piano / organ.

I can read both the treble and bass clef, just not very fast yet. It does have a bass clef part for the organ and I have been fairly successful interpreting it for the bass guitar. When I use the bassline in the hymnal, it sounds just like a note for note copy of the melody. I would like to play something that keeps rhythm and is tasteful and complimentary to the others without having to spend hours rewriting the music each week.

Are there any tips for taking piano sheet music and figuring out what guitar chords would be appropriate for each measure so I could start with the root notes and work from there? Any other suggestions for creating a quick and complimentary bassline? Thanks.

[JTE]

Look at the stacks of notes, and figure out what chord that is. What you're seeing in the hymnal isn't really the bass part from the organ music, it's the bass vocal line. Most hymnals I've seen show only the vocal lines.

So, you'll need to do some functional harmony training and read the stack to see what chord are being used. You'll start seeing some common progressions and that'll make your life easier. Also, see if the A/V department records the services- if so, get a copy of the service and take the hymnal home so you can spend some time 'shedding at home with the actual presentation. For a really good learning experience, see if you can get a copy of some of the traditional services, and cop the bass parts the organist is playing. That'll take you to places most bass players wouldn't find their fingers moving, and really expand your skills and ears.

John

[jeremyr]

Originally Posted by JTE

Look at the stacks of notes, and figure out what chord that is. What you're seeing in the hymnal isn't really the bass part from the organ music, it's the bass vocal line. Most hymnals I've seen show only the vocal lines.

So, you'll need to do some functional harmony training and read the stack to see what chord are being used. You'll start seeing some common progressions and that'll make your life easier. Also, see if the A/V department records the services- if so, get a copy of the service and take the hymnal home so you can spend some time 'shedding at home with the actual presentation. For a really good learning experience, see if you can get a copy of some of the traditional services, and cop the bass parts the organist is playing. That'll take you to places most bass players wouldn't find their fingers moving, and really expand your skills and ears.

John

All hymns follow your basic progressions, so listen and lock on the progression. There isn't much room to deviate in hymns to much if they're being played traditionally, so just find the pocket and stick in it.

[eaaa410]

Originally Posted by JTE

Look at the stacks of notes, and figure out what chord that is. What you're seeing in the hymnal isn't really the bass part from the organ music, it's the bass vocal line. Most hymnals I've seen show only the vocal lines.

Thanks. I feel like an idiot, but this actually makes perfect sense and helps tremendously. I will try work out the chords, or at least try to find out if there is an actual instrumental supplement to the hymnal.

[MalcolmAmos]

Talk to the rhythm guitarest. He has the same problem, what is he doing. Do the same thing, i.e. is he winging a I IV V or has he worked out the harmonizing chord from the treble or bass clef? Treble clef - like notes, bass clef - stacked notes.

The important factor is the melody line and the bass line should share notes, when this happens you harmonize - sound good. You and the melody should harmonize. I think you can eliminate most of that problem if you and the rhythm guitar are together - when he changes chords you do likewise. Who leads to the next chord is not a big deal, but, the two of you should be together.

[SKG1983]

Most denominational hymnals come in an "accompaniment version" which will generally have the chord changes written over the notation. You might check with your worship leader or just call the publisher of your particular hymnal. Many of the mainline denominations have come full circle with actual arrangements with parts for everyone available online for a nominal fee. It can be very challenging to come up with a complimentary bass line that fits the hymn and grooves with the rhythm section. Typically your worship leader should set the feel and tempo. If you have opportunity, try to get at least an intro feel for every hymn before you actually have to jump in. With an entire group, I try to rehearse the hymns in advance to avoid a train wreck. Many hymns change chords on every beat. You may want to simplify the changes in order to make it sound less like 4 part singing and more like a "song". Keep trying. After a while it will become easier.

[MalcolmAmos]

That a good point about getting sheet music that has the chord listed. We use The United Methodist Hymnal, however from Cokesberry Publishing you can request a copy that does show the chords. Probably $15 to $20 would eliminate this problem.

Your music director may already have such a copy.

[Bass4Gsus]

Look up the publisher of the hymnal. They publish musician versions of the hymnal which has what you need. Everything we do is from sheet music.

Most of what we do is not the old traditional Pipe Organ type stuff. But for the traditional stuff I usually walk a line and I am careful not to step on harmonies. Some stuff I play the C Clef which you would not see in the congregation version.

Also I noticed with the traditional stuff I sometimes see a phrase like guitar cords do not match piano.

We do not usually play the same stuff as the traditional choir group, but when we do, we do play it differently, and once in a while very differently.

Remember we are different groups, and we bring different things to the table. I spent many years in a choir and I like both approaches.

[anonymous101511]

This is great ear training! I've found that while the chords may often change on every quarter note, the root may remain the same for the full bar. The bass vocal part might outline the chord in very simple terms yet never sing the root, for example; it's common for the bass vocal to sing B-C-D-E over a G major, so you could play G for the whole bar, etc., etc. That would sound better than following the vocal and often the piano/ organ music would also avoid the root, so having that may not help unless chord symbols are written, in which case you've just made everything too easy! :-) Have fun and praise the Lord.

[eaaa410]

Originally Posted by vail_bass

This is great ear training! I've found that while the chords may often change on every quarter note, the root may remain the same for the full bar. The bass vocal part might outline the chord in very simple terms yet never sing the root, for example; it's common for the bass vocal to sing B-C-D-E over a G major, so you could play G for the whole bar, etc., etc. That would sound better than following the vocal and often the piano/ organ music would also avoid the root, so having that may not help unless chord symbols are written, in which case you've just made everything too easy! :-) Have fun and praise the Lord.

Thank you. This was the best and most easy to understand explanation I could have asked for! I have been confused by this for weeks. I am going to have to find the book with the accompanying chords. That will make it much easier. I have literally spent hours feverishly practicing a note for note rendition of hymnal. I simply do not have time to do this for five different hymns each week. I knew this had to easier. I must find the chords published somewhere. Thanks everyone for the help!

[bassman1987]

Originally Posted by Bass4Gsus

Look up the publisher of the hymnal. They publish musician versions of the hymnal which has what you need. Everything we do is from sheet music.

+1, try to find one of these simplified versions of the hymnal. The harmonic analysis route will of course work, but like others have said you'll quickly find that often the chord will change on every beat (often incorporating inverted and secondary function chords), which then necessitates analyzing the phrases to figure out how the chords are related to one another.

And as I have learned from studying theory, when you do lots of analysis you will of course get a headache and begin to ask yourself "is it worth it?"

[bobwhite]

You've gotten lots of great advice, but I will add one thing: If you choose to play the bass or tenor vocal lines from the hymnal (which are sometimes the melody but are often a harmony as the soprano line tends to carry the melody), you can certainly write the notes names below the bass line in the hymnal (as I do sometimes) to make it easier to make the quick changes. Also, working out the fingering in advance is key, as sometimes the fingering is tricky.

Good luck.

[tjh]

I am handed these about 15 minutes before we play, and my ear is weak, and we get one run through if we are lucky ... I am fortunate enough to have an understanding music major gal on piano that is able to whip the chord chart on a verse and the chorus in a flash and I work off of that ... as mentioned above, I always tend to simplify the changes to a measure or even more, and in most cases find with hymns that less is much better than more for a bass player ... a solid root change and an occassional two or three note walk into a chord change, and maybe a melody matching fill for emphasis is all that is ever needed ... with that said, I often find myself just 'turning things over to Him" during the worship and it all makes sense in ways I dont even know how I did it ...

[tobie]

Originally Posted by tjh

I am handed these about 15 minutes before we play

Ask the pianist to write the chord changes above the sheet notes on your version of the sheets. It will take him/her 60 seconds per song. It's really not much asked for!

[eaaa410]

Thanks for all the help. I was able to locate a source for the sheet music with chords. It all makes much more sense now. Thanks again.

[m_bisson]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

i.e. is he winging a I IV V

Sorry, I'm extremely new. What are these? Intervals?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by m_bisson

Sorry, I'm extremely new. What are these? Intervals? (i.e. is he winging a I IV V)

When we write about chords we use the Roman numbers, I IV V, etc.
When we write about scale notes (intervals) we use Arabic numbers, 1, 2, 3, etc.

That I IV V --- lets us know what specific chord we are talking about, i.e. if a Key of C then C, F and G.
I,. ii,... iii,. IV, V, vi,.. viidim, I octave
C, Dm, Em, F,. G, Am, Bdim,. C
Most of us use lower case numbers to show that chord will be a minor chord and the upper case numbers will be major chords. Some take offence to this usage. I've never understood why?

The I IV and V contain every note in the parent scale, so sooner or later one of those three chords will harmonize the melody - as the first rule of harmonization is that the melody line and the bass line share some of the same notes. When jamming we can assume a I IV V progression and be pretty safe.

Good luck.

[Staccato]

There's some great ideas posted, above!

Now, locate a hymnal with a broke back-that will lay flat on a copier. Using a copier that enlarges, go large. This is so you can see it from several feet away! If printing on 11x14 or 11x17 paper, you can shoot several copies to figure where to place on glass to get the resulting copy you want. Consider cutting the enlarged copies w/ scissors and taping or pasting to paper, if necessary.

If you don't keep copies of music in page protectors-do it! (Protectors are made w/ 3 holes on one side that will fit in a binder, and sold in most school or office supply areas of stores.)

There's all kinds of clips that will keep music on an orchestral-type music stand on stage-without falling on the floor, get clips that get the job done, not cheap substitutes.