College for Non-Jazz Electric Bassists

[Danni Moe]

I'm a junior in high school right now and I'm looking at colleges. I noticed that people have this idea that electric bass players that don't play jazz don't go to college either. I'm looking for schools that offer general or non-jazz performance. I've looked at Berklee, Santa Fe Art and Design, Colombia College Chicago, McNally Smith, Shenandoah and Rollins College. Every other place that I've come across is either upright and/or jazz only. Can you guys help me out?

[colcifer]

Well, there aren't many because even if you don't want to play jazz, jazz study is so damn good. The majority of musicians getting radio airplay (any era) are jazz musicians.

[So Low Bass]

As music educator for 35 years and the father of a 17 yr. old who wants to pursue music as a career in some way, several points come to mind:

1. What do you parents say?
2. What does your bass teacher say?
3. What does (do) your school music teacher(s) say?
4. What does your high school counselor say?
5. Did you take the PSATs?
6. Will you prep for the SATs?
7. Will you take both the SATS and ACT?
8. Do you play paying gigs in bands, or play in church?
9. Are you seriously preparing audition material?

There are LOTS of institutions that will talk it up and take your money… earned or borrowed. Look into serious, bonified colleges or universities. You’ll be able to prepare for a fulltime career and find fine bass teachers, off campus if needed, to continue private lessons. NOBODY cares about your credentials or student loans on stage.

I wouldn’t recommend Dewey Finn’s “School of Rock”.

[Danni Moe]

Originally Posted by So Low Bass

As music educator for 35 years and the father of a 17 yr. old who wants to pursue music as a career in some way, several points come to mind:

1. What do you parents say?
2. What does your bass teacher say?
3. What does (do) your school music teacher(s) say?
4. What does your high school counselor say?
5. Did you take the PSATs?
6. Will you prep for the SATs?
7. Will you take both the SATS and ACT?
8. Do you play paying gigs in bands, or play in church?
9. Are you seriously preparing audition material?

There are LOTS of institutions that will talk it up and take your money… earned or borrowed. Look into serious, bonified colleges or universities. You’ll be able to prepare for a fulltime career and find fine bass teachers, off campus if needed, to continue private lessons. NOBODY cares about your credentials or student loans on stage.

I wouldn’t recommend Dewey Finn’s “School of Rock”.

first of all my school doesnt have a music program
secondly I've never tlked to my bass teacher about it...

[JimmyM]

I would never waste time in a music program that didn't make jazz its focus. Why? Because it's clearly the best music to study for not only the demonstration of the academics of music, but because it's much harder to play well than most types of music. If you want to play rock or pop, you can listen to records to learn how to do that. But if you study jazz, you can play rock or metal or whatever and absolutely smoke it. Studying anything but jazz in school is a complete waste of time and money.

[Journey55]

Originally Posted by So Low Bass

As music educator for 35 years and the father of a 17 yr. old who wants to pursue music as a career in some way, several points come to mind:

1. What do you parents say?
2. What does your bass teacher say?
3. What does (do) your school music teacher(s) say?
4. What does your high school counselor say?
5. Did you take the PSATs?
6. Will you prep for the SATs?
7. Will you take both the SATS and ACT?
8. Do you play paying gigs in bands, or play in church?
9. Are you seriously preparing audition material?

There are LOTS of institutions that will talk it up and take your money... earned or borrowed. Look into serious, bonified colleges or universities. You'll be able to prepare for a fulltime career and find fine bass teachers, off campus if needed, to continue private lessons. NOBODY cares about your credentials or student loans on stage.

I wouldn't recommend Dewey Finn's "School of Rock".

I was thinking about this guy's same thing but.....I don't have a bass teacher? (I'm only a junior) should I get one?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Journey55

I was thinking about this guy's same thing but.....I don't have a bass teacher? (I'm only a junior) should I get one?

If you're looking to get serious and learn music on a higher level than you're at currently, most definitely. But have standards...get someone who's going to teach you music reading, jazz, playing over chord changes, etc.

[Journey55]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

If you're looking to get serious and learn music on a higher level than you're at currently, most definitely. But have standards...get someone who's going to teach you music reading, jazz, playing over chord changes, etc.

Well I can read music and I'm in my school's jazz band already..

[HeadyVan Halen]

Confused...you asked "should I talk to my bass teacher.." and then you said "I don't have a bass teacher.."
Anyhow, going to school for anything other than jazz would be like adults going back to college to learn how to add..yeah, I've got that down.
If you can do the intense stuff, the not so intense stuff would be easy..think of it as boot camp.

<news flash> you don't need to go to music school to learn rock.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Journey55

Well I can read music and I'm in my school's jazz band already..

Good...you should have REALLY high standards for a teacher! Find the very best teacher in town...maybe your band teacher can recommend someone.

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by Danni Moe

I'm a junior in high school right now and I'm looking at colleges. I noticed that people have this idea that electric bass players that don't play jazz don't go to college either. I'm looking for schools that offer general or non-jazz performance. I've looked at Berklee, Santa Fe Art and Design, Colombia College Chicago, McNally Smith, Shenandoah and Rollins College. Every other place that I've come across is either upright and/or jazz only. Can you guys help me out?

Hey dude, I learned the hard way that Jazz Studies as my only studies weren't for me. Check out St. Petersburg College's MIRA (Music Industry and Recording Arts) program. After bouncing around from school to school trying to find a college that fit me, I couldn't recommend this program enough.

It's an Associate program right now with the hopes of turning into a Bachelor of Science program in the near future.

The faculty are very approachable and teach with a "real-world" approach. The curriculum includes Music Law, Songwriting, Theory, Music Business, Recording Techniques, Ensembles, and Acoustics and Psychoacoustics. All of these things were more relevant to me than the "Evolution of Jazz" classes I was taking at a typical university.

And no, you don't need to learn upright to attend this school.

What's even better is it's in the Florida College System, so even with out-of-state tuition, chances are you'll be paying less than at an in-state university, never mind the high cost of Berklee, Miami, Belmont, Full Sail, and Musicians Institute.

While I agree with the other members that knowledge of Jazz theory will definitely help your writing, playing, and overall music experience, I understand where you're coming from. I don't want to play 25 different renditions of "Autumn Leaves" to be considered a "legit" musician.

Our bass teacher here is a really cool guy who pushes you as far as you wanna go and is really uplifting and an overall positive dude, I can't see how anybody would not like lessons with this guy.

And St. Pete, FL has to be one of the most underrated music scenes in the US. Go to any bar Wed-Sat and you will see any kind of music from jazz to ska to punk to metal, and chances are it'll be great sounding. I moved here a month ago and absolutely love it!

This probably sounded like spam, but I just attended this school and I noticed that it just "fits" me better. PM me if you'd like more info and I'll definitely point you in the right direction.

[sonofabass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I would never waste time in a music program that didn't make jazz its focus. Why? Because it's clearly the best music to study for not only the demonstration of the academics of music, but because it's much harder to play well than most types of music. If you want to play rock or pop, you can listen to records to learn how to do that. But if you study jazz, you can play rock or metal or whatever and absolutely smoke it. Studying anything but jazz in school is a complete waste of time and money.

Gotta disagree a great a bit here. "All music is one music". There is value in serious study of classical music and being able to play through the real book does not automatically give a player all of the tools to "smoke" any other style of music. I personally know a few "jazzers " that cant hold a funk groove if you packed it nicely in a suitcase.

[powellmacaque]

Furthermore, I plan on taking my studies to either Florida Atlantic University for their Commercial Music program, or staying at St. Pete College if they become a 4-year program.

When selecting a college, look for what is right for you, and not what "you could learn to live with" for the next four years of your life. Yes, jazz is fun and you really should learn jazz theory before you try to become a pro. But if you have an interest in being a modern musician, I think there are better programs out there than typical jazz studies programs, which really focus more on repertoire and less on real-world application and study of music.

[sandmangeck]

Check out new media degrees.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Danni Moe

I'm a junior in high school right now and I'm looking at colleges. I noticed that people have this idea that electric bass players that don't play jazz don't go to college either. I'm looking for schools that offer general or non-jazz performance. I've looked at Berklee, Santa Fe Art and Design, Colombia College Chicago, McNally Smith, Shenandoah and Rollins College. Every other place that I've come across is either upright and/or jazz only. Can you guys help me out?

In my observation, there are very few college/university music performance degree programs that offer study of electric bass as a separate track unto itself - regardless of the genre of music (although in practice it's usually jazz). Berklee is one. I'll take your word on the others.

The academic world is (as usual) way behind contemporary practice - and I wouldn't wait for it to catch up. This means you'll likely have to improvise, or compromise - or both:

Option #1: Stick to your guns about earning a performance degree on electric bass. Get into the best school available.

Option #2: Get accepted into a performance degree program that emphasizes upright bass - and either learn the upright, OR negotiate for a program of study that allows you to apply the course material to the electric bass instead (this option may require you to set something up in advance with one or more electric bassists on the faculty).

Option #3: Scrap the idea of getting a performance degree, and instead study composition, arranging, music technology, musicology - or any other sub-field of music that could prove useful to your career. Make your study of the instrument informal, rather than formal, with lots of private lessons, private woodshedding, gigging, etc. etc. Apply your formal music study to your informal instrument study, in a way that makes you the most well-rounded, well-trained & educated total musician possible.

* Wanna guess which option I think is best? (Hint: It's not Option #1. And it's not Option #2.)

MM

[colcifer]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I would never waste time in a music program that didn't make jazz its focus. Why? Because it's clearly the best music to study for not only the demonstration of the academics of music, but because it's much harder to play well than most types of music. If you want to play rock or pop, you can listen to records to learn how to do that. But if you study jazz, you can play rock or metal or whatever and absolutely smoke it. Studying anything but jazz in school is a complete waste of time and money.

Unless you want to play classical music. Classical really is its own thing.

Originally Posted by Journey55

I was thinking about this guy's same thing but.....I don't have a bass teacher? (I'm only a junior) should I get one?

Yes. And they should be a jazz musician. Where are you?

[sonofabass]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

In my observation, there are very few college/university music performance degree programs that offer study of electric bass as a separate track unto itself - regardless of the genre of music (although in practice it's usually jazz). Berklee is one. I'll take your word on the others.

The academic world is (as usual) way behind contemporary practice - and I wouldn't wait for it to catch up. This means you'll likely have to improvise, or compromise - or both:

Option #1: Stick to your guns about earning a performance degree on electric bass. Get into the best school available.

Option #2: Get accepted into a performance degree program that emphasizes upright bass - and either learn the upright, OR negotiate for a program of study that allows you to apply the course material to the electric bass instead (this option may require you to set something up in advance with one or more electric bassists on the faculty).

Option #3: Scrap the idea of getting a performance degree, and instead study composition, arranging, music technology, musicology - or any other sub-field of music that could prove useful to your career. Make your study of the instrument informal, rather than formal, with lots of private lessons, private woodshedding, gigging, etc. etc. Apply your formal music study to your informal instrument study, in a way that makes you the most well-rounded, well-trained & educated total musician possible.

* Wanna guess which option I think is best? (Hint: It's not Option #1. And it's not Option #2.)

MM

MM just gave some stellar advise! ESPECIALLY option #3. Im certainly grateful for my education but, had I to do all over again would go with #3 in a heartbeat.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Good...you should have REALLY high standards for a teacher! Find the very best teacher in town...maybe your band teacher can recommend someone.

And that teacher doesn't necessarily have to be a bass player either. Better to study with a great horn player/guitarist/pianist etc than a mediocre bassist. Most of the technique specific to your instrument you're going to teach yourself anyway.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by sonofabass

Gotta disagree a great a bit here. "All music is one music". There is value in serious study of classical music and being able to play through the real book does not automatically give a player all of the tools to "smoke" any other style of music. I personally know a few "jazzers " that cant hold a funk groove if you packed it nicely in a suitcase.

Agreed about classical, but I'm assuming people who are on this side of TB aren't playing classical so much.

However, while I'll agree with you that watching a hardcore jazz player play like a puss on "Back In Black" can be a sad sight indeed, it's not the jazz education's fault. It's that said jazz musician has no great love for it and no appreciation of the style required to pull it off. But that's easily fixed...you just have to listen to the music and absorb its nuances. And that can be accomplished without spending any money on school. There are a ton of musicians schooled in jazz who totally excel playing rock. If it's in you, learning the academics of music doesn't take it out of you...it only enhances it.

[waveofthinking]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I would never waste time in a music program that didn't make jazz its focus. Why? Because it's clearly the best music to study for not only the demonstration of the academics of music, but because it's much harder to play well than most types of music. If you want to play rock or pop, you can listen to records to learn how to do that. But if you study jazz, you can play rock or metal or whatever and absolutely smoke it. Studying anything but jazz in school is a complete waste of time and money.

Right on, brother! Jazz is the only way. Couldn't have said it better myself.