Colleges?

[Icarus26]

Since i am a senior, i have to be thinking about what colleges to apply to. I want to become a major in music, composition, or performance. Of course my bass will be my instrument of choice (being the only instrument i can play). Of course life as a musician may not be profitable at all haha, i realize this, but i would still like to work in the music business, maybe in as an A&R, listening out for new bands and such. I just want to have that musical degree.

i have a decent GPA, 3.3 average for all years so far.
SAT score was average - 1650
ACT score was a 24.
i live in California, but i wouldn't mind leaving state.

anyone know any good colleges for music?

[Freddels]

Do you play upright bass? Take a serious look at North Texas. Probably the best bang for the buck.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by Icarus26

Since i am a senior, i have to be thinking about what colleges to apply to. I want to become a major in music, composition, or performance.

First you need to decide what you actually want to do. Because there is a HUGE difference between performance and composition. Also consider what your goals are, (jazz, contemperary stuff). I'm not really sure about schools on the west coast but when I was looking around you had to first decide on what you want. So first decide about what you actually want to major in, and what your goals to do with said major are.

[Icarus26]

i'd like to do contemporary music since i want to become a professional musician. And to answer the previous question, i do not play upright bass, it'd be cool, but then again, i haven't even been playing bass long enough haha. The thing is that i feel anything i can learn about music, the business, the theory, how to write songs, will help me in my goal of becoming a musician. I'd like to start a band and expand my network when i get in college, i feel that the classes will just give me the knowledge to be a better musician, while with my leisure time, I'll focus on establishing/joining a band and going from there.

i lack experience with colleges and i do not know anyone who pursued music in college, so i only have a general idea of what each major is. i don't know exactly what goes on in the class.

also another question. do colleges make you audition if you plan on doing performance?

[DocBop]

I would say you really need to visit a local college and find out what being a music major is all about. Actually you can learn what you need at any good college, because it's more about you and you applying yourself and thirst for knowledge than the school. Schools are a resource you have to take advantage of.

Also I would say minor in business because music even playing is a business and music is a real tough field with lots of competition and less work every year now with the internet you are competing in a global market. So having good business know will help you in music or if you end up going another direction later.

[ryco]

Here's a couple of good programs in the Pacific NW:

Mt Hood Community College - Portland, OR

Central WA U - Ellensburg, WA

[Icarus26]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Also I would say minor in business because music even playing is a business and music is a real tough field with lots of competition and less work every year now with the internet you are competing in a global market. So having good business know will help you in music or if you end up going another direction later.

haha. my parents said minor in music and major in business. it is rational, if i could double major, i'd do both. but i want to major in music. but as reality sets in, i am preparing myself, i am currently taking an after school business entrepreneurship class, no credits,$5 for 14 days, twice a week, just to understand business a bit better.

[Mark Wilson]

I suggest Humber College here in Toronto.
An INCREDIBLE school, IMO.

[dustdbass6]

Originally Posted by Icarus26

i have a decent GPA, 3.3 average for all years so far.
SAT score was average - 1650
ACT score was a 24.
i live in California, but i wouldn't mind leaving state.

I was about to ask how the heck you scored over 100% on the SATs, but then I looked it up and found out that the max score got moved to 2400. A lot can change in 8 years I guess.

I went to Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo for engineering, but the music program there was OK. I don't think it was anything to write home about though.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Icarus26

i feel that the classes will just give me the knowledge to be a better musician, while with my [b] leisure time[b], I'll focus on establishing/joining a band and going from there.

You still have to take general ed classes. I doubt you'll have much leisure time.

i lack experience with colleges and i do not know anyone who pursued music in college, so i only have a general idea of what each major is. i don't know exactly what goes on in the class.

+100 on visiting colleges to get your questions answered.

also another question. do colleges make you audition if you plan on doing performance?

I hope so.

Of course my bass will be my instrument of choice (being the only instrument i can play). ...but then again, i haven't even been playing bass long enough

I took composition/theory at a local community college and there's no time to start learning the basics. There was also ear training class and you had to start naming intervals by ear that were played to you in class. It's not like you can say, "can you play that one again?"

If you're not already up on this stuff, it will certainly create some frustration, especially when competing with other students who can do this stuff in their sleep.

Do you already know how to read music? Did you play in the school band? Have you taken music/bass lessons?

You'll be competing with people who have 5 to 10 years of experience already. That's something you can't make up, no matter how hard/long you study. You have to be realistic.

My friend's son is a performance major at UCLA and he started playing clarinet at like 7-8 years old. He can sight read any music put in front of him. His dad has a great ear for music and so does he.

You need a whole lot more info before you make a decision.

[DogPlaysBass]

I would seriously consider NOT going to college for music. You can hang out with all the music students and learn everything they are learning. At many colleges you can still get into the ensembles even if you are not in the program. Once you get your degree in music you are forced to play forever. You are in high school right now and playing music is an option. When you rely on playing music to eat, things change.

Also, when you get into college, things change. Be very careful. Many music programs, and this is absolutely true in the case of North Texas, have many classes that only give you one credit hour. So you have a huge workload and you are not getting many credits towards graduating compared to other majors. To make things worse, many programs want you to load up on nothing but music classes for the first couple of years. Then two years have passed, you realize music in college is not all it is cracked up to be, and then if you want a degree in something that can make you money, you are stuck for another four years.

On the opposite side of the coin, going to music school could be the greatest experience of your life. You may love every minute of it and it may help you become the musician you always wanted to be.

I am not telling you not to do it, just take a step back and think about both sides seriously. You can still be a professional musician without going to college for music.

[DogPlaysBass]

Majoring in business could be the smartest move you could possibly make. Once you start gigging you will meet more crooks and snakes than you ever imagined. If you don't understand business, especially when contracts come into play, snakes will get you at every turn. If you want knowledge, get out there and get gigs and force yourself to get into varied musical situations. That will challenge you to get better more than any test in school. Once again I repeat there are good aspects about music school, but I just think 1) usually it is overkill and 2) you can do it yourself if you have the drive.

If you take a jazz harmony course, theory 1, and basic ear training, you are set. Everything else you can learn in the real world.

[DogPlaysBass]

Your groove is sacred. The feeling you get when you play and connect is the one of the greatest things one can ever experience. In music school, you will find a lot of professors that don't care about that. You will come to a fork in the road many times where you have to choose between your sacred groove and making a good grade. There is no right or wrong in music, but there is right or wrong in music school. There is a certain sound a lot of players have once they graduate... they sound 'institutionalized'. This can be good because it can get you work. Remember though that graduating with a music degree has nothing to do with that fire in your belly, and ignoring it for four or five years might extinguish the flame. Some make it through music school and maintain their voice. Some lose their passion and never look at the instrument the same way again. Be careful, you have no way of knowing how much this decision can change your life, so I am giving you a friendly warning.

[VisualShock]

Be aware you may be asked to learn another instrument to supplement your bass skills.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by VisualShock

Be aware you may be asked to learn another instrument to supplement your bass skills.

I would rephrase that to you will be asked to learn piano to develop your skills as a musician. I would also say in this day if you want to be a career musician you better have some basic keyboard skills. You are competing against KB bass in the studio, why not play some KB and get the gig and the KB bass will have real bass feel.

Also I would take some recording classes because most work is done in small studios or over the internet. You better know how to work with today digital tools. Today is all about having a variety of skills to survive. Only the best of the best can survive only playing bass.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by Icarus26

Since I am a senior, I have to be thinking about what colleges to apply to. I want to become a major in music, composition, or performance. Of course my bass will be my instrument of choice (being the only instrument I can play)...I live in California, but I wouldn't mind leaving state.

Anyone know any good colleges for music?

I am going to assume you can read music, have a teacher for bass, and can prepare an audition CD with your teacher's help.

The suggestion of the University of North Texas is a very good one, my wife is a music professor there. It is a serious place, especially for Jazz, voice, bass, brass, etc. Even if you are not interested in Jazz, Jazz players and teachers are a lot more likely to recognize electric bass as a serious instrument (yes, that is still a problem), so finding Jazz people on a school's performance Faculty is a good thing.

However, you will probably find it a lot cheaper to stay in the UC system. My experience and advice all concerns schools in Northern California, especially the Bay area.

I taught music at Stanford (private $$$$$) and at San Francisco State University, and I took three semesters of courses in Music Education at San Jose State. In the Bay area, there are several other obvious choices, such as UC Berkeley, Mills College (private $$$), Santa Clara University (private $$$), CSU Hayward, and CSU Sonoma. UC Davis is a bit further away. I have friends teaching at Hayward, Berkeley, Sonoma, Davis, and San Francisco State. I know a number of people who have gone to Mills.

Of all those schools, I would recommend San Francisco State and San Jose State because they have good programs, recognize electric bass at least to some extent, and have Jazz musicians on the faculty. Sonoma is good, but I'd avoid Stanford and Davis. I don't have a strong opinion on Hayward.

Davis is pretty hide-bound for composition, and Stanford doesn't have a performance major, as music performance is regarded by the Academic Faculty (tenured Professors) as "something fun we all do in our living rooms," not as a serious professional artistic, intellectual, or scholarly activity.

I'm neutral on Santa Clara, Berkeley, and Mills unless you have strong specific interests in composition, musicology, or classical performance. Unless things have changed very recently, UC Berkely does not consider the electric bass to be a viable performance major. Mills might, check this. Santa Clara is nice, but expensive, small, and pretty traditional.

Do your homework. Get the university application info/requirements and course catalogues online from school web pages. Get the exact details about available music majors and admission requirements for music majors directly from each school's music department web pages, and preferably in print or pdf. Don't take anyone's word for what is required, get the latest written details, and call them if you are confused by the published info and music dept. application rules. Do not miss any deadlines!!! You are already running late, IMHO.

Word of caution--take all advice, including mine, with a grain of salt. Only you know your interests, strengths, and weaknesses. The UC schools are much more competitive, as you know, than the CSU schools. However, except for their graduate level study, they really are not any better. If you plan on getting a Masters or a Doctorate, going to a higher status school helps.

Please remember this:

It is simply not possible to be "too good" as a performer (reader and improviser), no matter what you are applying for. No matter where and with whom you have studied, you will be judged on the quality of your musicianship. If you haven't started taking piano already, start this week. You are going to need it. If you have studied double bass, polish up your recital pieces. If you have any notated scores, get them played and recorded. Prepare a killer audition. Make them want you. Good luck!

[davidjbass]

Don't go to school for music. Get a degree in something that will make you a good living.
Music College is a great experience but you are not guaranteed to make a living. Have a fall back position and do your music on the side while you go to school for whatever else you choose. Take advice from a 45 year old bassist who went to Berklee College of Music for performance. I learned a lot, meet some great players and improved my playing but if I had to do it again I would have gone to college for something else that would have gotten me a good paying job. And then did my music on the side. Good luck.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

I am going to assume you can read music, have a teacher for bass, and can prepare an audition CD with your teacher's help.

The suggestion of the University of North Texas is a very good one, my wife is a music professor there. It is a serious place, especially for Jazz, voice, bass, brass, etc. Even if you are not interested in Jazz, Jazz players and teachers are a lot more likely to recognize electric bass as a serious instrument (yes, that is still a problem), so finding Jazz people on a school's performance Faculty is a good thing.

However, you will probably find it a lot cheaper to stay in the UC system. My experience and advice all concerns schools in Northern California, especially the Bay area.

I taught music at Stanford (private $$$$$) and at San Francisco State University, and I took three semesters of courses in Music Education at San Jose State. In the Bay area, there are several other obvious choices, such as UC Berkeley, Mills College (private $$$), Santa Clara University (private $$$), CSU Hayward, and CSU Sonoma. UC Davis is a bit further away. I have friends teaching at Hayward, Berkeley, Sonoma, Davis, and San Francisco State. I know a number of people who have gone to Mills.

Of all those schools, I would recommend San Francisco State and San Jose State because they have good programs, recognize electric bass at least to some extent, and have Jazz musicians on the faculty. Sonoma is good, but I'd avoid Stanford and Davis. I don't have a strong opinion on Hayward.

Davis is pretty hide-bound for composition, and Stanford doesn't have a performance major, as music performance is regarded by the Academic Faculty (tenured Professors) as "something fun we all do in our living rooms," not as a serious professional artistic, intellectual, or scholarly activity.

I'm neutral on Santa Clara, Berkeley, and Mills unless you have strong specific interests in composition, musicology, or classical performance. Unless things have changed very recently, UC Berkely does not consider the electric bass to be a viable performance major. Mills might, check this. Santa Clara is nice, but expensive, small, and pretty traditional.

Do your homework. Get the university application info/requirements and course catalogues online from school web pages. Get the exact details about available music majors and admission requirements for music majors directly from each school's music department web pages, and preferably in print or pdf. Don't take anyone's word for what is required, get the latest written details, and call them if you are confused by the published info and music dept. application rules. Do not miss any deadlines!!! You are already running late, IMHO.

Word of caution--take all advice, including mine, with a grain of salt. Only you know your interests, strengths, and weaknesses. The UC schools are much more competitive, as you know, than the CSU schools. However, except for their graduate level study, they really are not any better. If you plan on getting a Masters or a Doctorate, going to a higher status school helps.

Please remember this:

It is simply not possible to be "too good" as a performer (reader and improviser), no matter what you are applying for. No matter where and with whom you have studied, you will be judged on the quality of your musicianship. If you haven't started taking piano already, start this week. You are going to need it. If you have studied double bass, polish up your recital pieces. If you have any notated scores, get them played and recorded. Prepare a killer audition. Make them want you. Good luck!

Excellent advice.

To the OP, I've a son who is a jazz performance major at UNT. He is in his senior year and I guess I helped him look at and evaluate various schools but ultimately it was his decision. Long before his senior year, when I realized how serious he was I made sure he got the best instructors I could find and made sure he learned to read music and took theory lessons.

We looked at as many of the top schools as we could but ultimately he auditioned at Berklee, New England Conservatory and UNT. He was accepted at all of the schools but chose UNT. If you are interested in UNT, you might want to correspond w/ their jazz bass professor, Lynn Seaton who we are lucky to have here on Talkbass.

In addition to the excellent advice that Jim gave above let me add the following:

1. Please consider University of Illinois School of Music in Champaign Urbana. My son studied privately with Larry Gray who is currently on faculty there and you'd be hard pressed to find a better, more capable professor at ANY of the schools or conservatories. Yea he's that good. We drove 3 hours each way as often as we could just to get a 2 hour lesson with him.

2. While generally true that you can make more of your finances in state, I would suggest that you apply to any school that moves you. Some of the private conservatories/schools cost more but have more money available for the right canidate.

3. Let me give a +1000000000000 to Jim's advice about preparation for audition. Start NOW if you want to make the most of your chances.

My $.02.

[jonbass]

Another thing to consider since you say ultimatly you want to be a professional bassist is what city you are in and what the working scene there is like. For someone trying to be a player networking is huge. Bieng in a small town with a great music program could be awesome, but when its time for the real world it helps to be somewhere with a big enough scene for you to work. Good luck!

[pedro]

Originally Posted by davidjbass

Don't go to school for music. Get a degree in something that will make you a good living.
Music College is a great experience but you are not guaranteed to make a living. Have a fall back position and do your music on the side while you go to school for whatever else you choose. Take advice from a 45 year old bassist who went to Berklee College of Music for performance. I learned a lot, meet some great players and improved my playing but if I had to do it again I would have gone to college for something else that would have gotten me a good paying job. And then did my music on the side. Good luck.

Funny how perspectives on the same subject can be so different. I started as a music major in 1973 and due to a number of reasons beyond the scope of this discussion ended up getting a degree in accounting. Worst mistake I ever made. From my point of view, its an awful long day when you love something but are forced to do something else.