Comparing yourself to the greats...

cire113 · #1 05-27-2011, 08:51 PM

Sometimes i get really bummed out from my playing because i always compare myself to players who are "great" and try to strive to be as a good as them but its just unrealistic... like victor wooten marcus miller or stanley clarke..

Honestly i think this is a bad thing.. because it always leaves me depressed and not wanting to play...

I have to remind myself these guys have been playing for 30+years... versus my 3 years and its really stupid to even compare myself to them..

anyone know what im talking about and offer advice on this?

I'm trying to realize music is art and its no a competition and everyone is a their own level...

gnarlyopossum · #2 05-27-2011, 09:03 PM

I think the best advice that anyone has given me on the subject is pretty simple. Don't know if it will help, but here it is: Being a musician is just an extension of yourself. You are unique with your own ideas, style, speech, and personality. It makes sense that your bass playing would fit.

I sometimes get caught in the trap of listening to these INCREDIBLE bassists and thinking that, if I want to be taken seriously, I need to play like them. However, even when I've tried (believe me, I have), it comes out sounding phony. I say that you should always strive to be better, but you need to evolve in a way that lets you continue to play your own style in your own band (or solo record, or church, etc). Your playing will natural improve, but it should always be an extension of yourself...not Victor Wooten.

Billnc · #3 05-27-2011, 09:10 PM

I can do 'me' better than any great. My hope would be for one of them to emulate me. Hasn't happened yet and we're all still happy.
Art is self expression.

Beginner Bass · #4 05-27-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnarlyopossum

I think the best advice that anyone has given me on the subject is pretty simple. Don't know if it will help, but here it is: Being a musician is just an extension of yourself. You are unique with your own ideas, style, speech, and personality. It makes sense that your bass playing would fit.

I sometimes get caught in the trap of listening to these INCREDIBLE bassists and thinking that, if I want to be taken seriously, I need to play like them. However, even when I've tried (believe me, I have), it comes out sounding phony. I say that you should always strive to be better, but you need to evolve in a way that lets you continue to play your own style in your own band (or solo record, or church, etc). Your playing will natural improve, but it should always be an extension of yourself...not Victor Wooten.

Agreed. Don't play for the sake of sounding like someone else. It's not to say you can't learn from them, but you should be able to find your own voice, your own style, your own identity. Nobody wants to hear someone who trys to be someone else.

Dbassmon · #5 05-27-2011, 09:32 PM

admiring excellence... it shows us what is possible.

What most people do not see is the amount of time and dedication it takes to become a great musician or great at anything for that matter.
Larry Bird, super star in the NBA in the 80's would practice free throws for hours every day. Jaco Pastorious was obsessive about practicing. True of just about anybody is truly remarkable at what they do.... they dedicate themselves to being great. I am not talking about trying to sound like anyone else... I am talking about mastery of your instrument.

If you want to be great, you gotta do the work and if that makes you feel bad, probably enjoy it as a hobby and leave it at that.

Mojo-Man · #6 05-27-2011, 09:33 PM

Leave your ego at the door, and just be yourself.
That is good enough.

sammyp · #7 05-27-2011, 09:33 PM

it's a really bad idea to compare oneself to the likes of Victor Wooten ....just don't go there ...no good can come of it LOL!

**rhino333** · #8 05-27-2011, 09:44 PM

From a playing perspective, I like it when I know I can "hang" with the "big kids". I know in my area those who can kick my butt and those butts I can kick. My situation may be more "old school" than others. I've been to a number of head cuttin' contests and those, by nature, are competitive. Still, I'm not afraid to stand on stage with anyone and I HOPE others feel the same way. Do I get down if I'm blown off the stage? Nope. Only angry if I didn't give it my best and I didn't leave it all on the floor/stage.

I'm going to be me when I play, anyways. I don't want to be a clone of any bass player I like or learn from (and I try to learn from them all). Do I pull some parts from the ones I listen too??? Sure. Especially if there's a "signature line" for a song. Beyond that, give me the changes, tempo, key and let it roll.

klaus486 · #9 05-27-2011, 10:00 PM

I don't compare myself to them I just listen for inspiration. Like many have said I'm "ME" no matter what but I can certainly strive for Anthony Jackson's precision or Percy Jones originality but in the end it all goes though the filter that is me. I also find that where great bass player lurk you will find great music! Not that the opposite isn't true but the greats play great music. In the end you should listen to music that makes you feel ecstatic whether there's bass in it or not. Try some Arvo Part for amazing music with no bass at all. Start with the track Cantus In Memory of Benjamin Britten. LOud!

Waterpilot · #10 05-27-2011, 10:23 PM

There is no comparison to myself and the greats so it wouldn't make any sense to do so.

onionpuzzle · #11 05-27-2011, 10:38 PM

you're going to get the same answer from everyone....
it's cool to use "the greats" to motivate and inspire, but with TIME and PATIENCE you can get good.....and by then you should be happy with being yourself.

"the only place success comes before work is in the dictionary"

cire113 · #12 05-28-2011, 04:34 PM

I think some of you guys mis understood me... I'm not specifically trying to "sound" like them... I just get bummed out by "overall"" how good they are as musicians compared to myself.. which is dumb...

I'm happy with my own sound... but because i know whats "possible" it makes me think im not good and it makes me depressed when i feel like i play less that what im capable..

Its like i judge my self worth based on how i played or practice.. If i feel i play good i feel great .. if i feel i played bad feel terrible...

I'll just keep playing i guess... im im no rush i'm 26 hopefully i can play a few more years before i die

davec · #13 05-28-2011, 04:50 PM

It's interesting because I've been very blessed to hang with some of my heroes and what always surprises me is how encouraging they are in regards to being Me and that by default I have My own voice on the bass. Your in South Florida, make your way to Clearwater and book an hour or so with Jeff Berlin. It sounds like you need to find your voice

thibo62 · #14 05-28-2011, 04:56 PM

If your approach is watching them, and say "Man, I suck" this is a bad thing.

If you take it has, what can I learn from it, it already is a better thing.

Watching Alain Caron live and from very close during this year MusikMesse in Frankfurt, I noticed how he was trying to make as short movements as possible with his hands. I was inspired by them, and I try to emulate that in my daily routine. It's a small thing, but it's a first step.

My bass teacher told me : "Music is a long journey, and its pace is decided by the speed of your metronome..."

mambo4 · #15 05-28-2011, 05:00 PM

Yer doin' it wrong!
"the greats" are not for comparing yourself to, they are for stealing(aka learning) ideas from.

My hero is James Jamerson: I know I will likely never reach his level, but after years of listening and learning his parts, breaking them down rhythmically,chord and theory wise, I started to hear the places where those ideas could fit in my own playing.
But it took a while for my own sensibility to reach a point where I wasn't just playing copycat.
Chances are nobody would listen to my band and hear anything to do with Jamerson
- but I know there are ideas i use often that I can trace directly back to the time I spent picking apart his lines.

one thing I've noticed about this process is that the really flashy stuff that makes you go WOW has a narrow value in the long run...it's the solid stylistic underpinnings, those supportive sideman playing habits that the greats embody that really benefit study.

Don't compare: learn, analyze, and add their tools to your kit.

cire113 · #16 05-28-2011, 08:21 PM

good stuff guys thanks...

Thats exactly what i do mambo.. analyze steal incorporate

I need to not be so hard on myself... im not even a musician for a living *** am i talking about.. i should just be having fun!!

SalmonKing · #17 05-29-2011, 03:32 PM

My favorite aphorism: The greater the emphasis on perfection, the further it recedes.

cire113 · #18 05-29-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalmonKing

My favorite aphorism: The greater the emphasis on perfection, the further it recedes.

Definetly my problem in life.. I'm a perfectionist spot on salmon king!!

Russell L · #19 06-01-2011, 10:20 AM

I'm into expression. I've said it before on here: it's all about articulation.

While jamming with some buds this weekend I was inside jamming alone for about 30 minutes while the guys were sitting on the porch having a cold one or two. Suddenly, I appeared at the door, my bass still hanging around my neck, and said, "I'm there--now my hands, fingers, arms, and body have all come to the point of perfect expression (it feels kinda floppy to me)." I was playing non-stop for half an hour. Sometimes I'd play a one-bar line for ten minutes until it "became" something, so to speak. Now, the goal in all this is to get to that same point sooner, instead of it taking 30 minutes to get there. but, the more I go there, the better and sooner it comes. It is such a good feeling that it is a hunger. Thing is, the line doesn't need to be fancy. It can be just three or four notes in one measure. Just try taking the simplest lick you can think of and working it to see how it can best be said, or how many different ways it can be said. And do it for 30 minutes. You'll see.

Music is about feeling. And all I can feel is what's inside me. No one else can feel it for me, nor can I feel what's inside them. They play their way, I play mine. I'll nod to them in approval, but I'm not trying to be them, or even compete with them. The times that I have ever felt competitive onstage were the worst feeling musical moments I can remember. When I'm way down inside myself articulating I have no room for anything else.

WJGreer · #20 06-01-2011, 10:32 AM

Here's another perspective.

You picked a group of players who are extremely focused and loyal to music that is creative, technical, and perfect, but which has very narrow appeal.

All of the guys you mentioned have lived their lives like monks, with an incredible devotion to their music. They would tell you that at most points in time, they have allowed for nothing else, they have almost starved, and in their best hour, you might be surprised at how modestly they live in order to be able to do what they do. Even right now.

All of these guys have achieved notoriety through a combination of non-musical business talent and luck. Stanley has written several film scores and may have a different thing going on than the average bass guru. But for each of these guys, there are thousands of others who are just as good and who will labor through a career in obscurity aside from the immediate communities in which they play. And there is nothing wrong with that life, when you enter it with your eyes open.

You had an opportunity to devote your life to music - your music, the way you think it should be written and played, everyone else's opinion be damned. You may still have that opportunity. So do I, along with all of the rest of us. Why haven't you taken that opportunity? Would you really want that life, even if you could have it?

For most of us, the answer is not as obvious as we thought.