Concerning Multiple Instruments....

[magnusdeus123]

I was just checking out some music of the band Apocalyptica . If you guys arent aware of these guys , their a Finnish Cello Rock/Metal band . Currently their lineup consists of 3 Cellists and a Drummer , but previously it was just 4 cellists . Now their music is pretty amazing , but that aside I got a few doubts I wanted to clear up .

The Cello itself is pretty much close to the sonic range of a bass instrument such as our very own weapon of choice , the bass guitar . Now I'm and noob , but I know this much in music theory or I've often heard that , usually , it should be avoided to have 2 instruments playing in the same sonic range , some different types of riff's , somewhat similar to having 2 guitarists solo'ing at the same time . It screws up the aspect of it , since the listener cannot have the release of focusing on a single lead , and having the rhythm to back it up . Anyways , this is what I've figured out uptill now , how a general composition in mordern music could go , excluding the drums ;

1 A Chordal Rhythmic instrument such as the guitar or piano , focusing on chord progressions and rhythmic backing .

2 A Low end Bass instrument such as the bass guitar , which is focusing on just keeping ground . This would usually involve playing whole notes or half notes , along with the chordal progression . Basically the role here being just 'filling it up' .

3 A Lead instrument , which is handling all the melodic improvisation , solo , leading and all that stuff , usually a guitar or the right hand section of the piano .

4 Another Bass instrument which focuses on melodic basslines , using techniques such as Arpeggio's and such , if you get my drift .

Now , as far at the range goes , I would assume this is how it would go ;

eg. Something in the key of C

Lead - Range of C4 and above
Rhythm - Range of C3/C4
Melodic Bass - Range of C3
Deep Bass - range of C2

Is this right ?? I mean can such a setting be used for composition ?? The reason I ask is coz I'm wondering what would happen if I were to have 2 bassists playing , at about an octave difference , and having different roles , such as one can be Arpeggiating , and the other one can be the lead . What would be the result of that ??

I do understand that this is actually much more of a composition/orchestration question rather than a bass guitar specific thing , but considering the no. of greats here in the forums , I'm sure you guys can help me clear my doubts here .

[BassChuck]

If I understand what you are saying you are correct that several instruments in the same range (all improvising) could create a good bit of sonic clutter.

So.... if you have several instruments in the same range you have to organize just what they are playing.

Three bass players grooving on a chord progression could be a problem. Having one play the root the other the fifth and the last one an octave above the first would solve the hassle, but they would have to play their part correctly in a predetermined way. All this is called orchestration and its the way that an 85 to 100 piece orchestra can perform cleanly and together.

I've only heard one YouTube vid with this band with 3 cellos and from that I would conclude that 'sonic clutter' is not on the table as a point of discussion. That said, I'd be willing to bet that they are more organized that it would appear.

[DocBop]

It's all about the arrangement and instruments can play in same range if not stepping each other. You might double a part to make it stand out, or in harmony in same range, they could be playing off each other rhythmicly. Rhythmic differences are key especially in modern styles. An teacher I had in music school used to do rhythmic transcriptions of James Brown, Rufus, and other greats. Looking at the every 16th note of a measure was being played, but by different insturments guitar, bass, pieces of the drumset, percussion, keyboard.

It all about finding a hole to play in and not step on others. On bass remembering to make sure the bottom is supported, too many start going up the neck or filling too much and nothing else is supporting the low end. Part of learning to play is learning to think like an arranger. Listening to the whole group to create a part that fits.

[magnusdeus123]

Thats exactly what I'm trying to understand , the concept of Orchrestration , and how it can be used in a modern musical setting . Thats why I'm wondering whether a quartet consisting of 2 guitarists and 2 bassist , handling different roles , would have something going , or would it just be utter chaos .

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

Thats exactly what I'm trying to understand , the concept of Orchrestration , and how it can be used in a modern musical setting . Thats why I'm wondering whether a quartet consisting of 2 guitarists and 2 bassist , handling different roles , would have something going , or would it just be utter chaos .

Transcribe songs like I was saying teacher did get your band involve each transcribe their own part. Then in rehearsal bringing in each instrument at a time to hear how their part fits. I say listen to live recordings or bands in clubs because playing live requires playing different to sound full than on record.

There are books and classes on arranging, composition, orchestration but most is geared to larger groups and Jazz. The key is record yourself, your band, and listen. get others to listen. Who playing too busy, who part is getting lost, rhythmicly who's stepping on who, is their mud from too many playing in same ranage.

It's all listening skills to your favorite music live and recorded and listening close to how they arrange. Listen to yourself and your group. Listen to same things your parts and arrangement.

Bottom line its all about listening closer listen how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. No simple answers just have to develop new listening skills.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

1 A Chordal Rhythmic instrument such as the guitar or piano , focusing on chord progressions and rhythmic backing .

2 A Low end Bass instrument such as the bass guitar , which is focusing on just keeping ground . This would usually involve playing whole notes or half notes , along with the chordal progression . Basically the role here being just 'filling it up' .

3 A Lead instrument , which is handling all the melodic improvisation , solo , leading and all that stuff , usually a guitar or the right hand section of the piano .

4 Another Bass instrument which focuses on melodic basslines , using techniques such as Arpeggio's and such , if you get my drift .

"Bass" can be any of those. Especially given the way bass as an instrument has been developed into extended ranges over the last five to ten years. Also it is nothing new to have two basses, even in the traditional sense playing EADG tunings to play together. Also how many bands do you see with two guitarists or even more? It's not really about sharing the same sonic space, but as DocBop said it's about finding the right "hole" in the music.

Employing techniques like counterpoint, parallel motion or simulacra are all ways you can have the same kind of instrument playing the same piece and still have individual voices. There is nothing to stop you from being dissonant either, everything doesn't have to sound consonant just for the sake of avoiding frequency conflict.

Michael Manring, Dominique DiPiazza and Yves Carbone made a record recently where the three of them played together. You might check it out to get an idea of what is possible.