contra bass tuned in fifths

[CRTL+ALT+DEL] · #1 07-12-2008, 01:14 AM

so i have this weird baritone guitar tuned in fifths, i wanna get a bass tuned the same way, well... kinda, i want it tuned in fifths, but i wanna start the low string somewhere around where jauqo III-X's low string is and come up from there. so if i started down at c# and came up from there in fifths, how many strings would i have to have to get up to let say the d string on a regularly tuned 4 string bass. SORRY, i don't know much about bass yet and i've never learned theory. but i would appreciate any info from all of you who do

DudeistMonk · #2 07-12-2008, 03:57 AM

Maybe I'm misunderstanding all this...

The Bass is already tuned in 5ths...

I went to that Jaquo guys website, he is talking about bass that goes 2 strings lower than a 5 string low B bass...

Personally I don't know why anyone would want to play that, a B string is already unwieldy and below E everything starts to get less and less defined and more muddy, most 5 string players rarely use the low B for more than convenience and the occasional suprise, IMO.

Blonde Bassist · #3 07-12-2008, 04:21 AM

I think you're saying you want a low C# string, followed by strings tuned a fifth above each time. This is pretty much stinging like a violin or 'cello. If I were you I'd start on C, just to make it simpler, less sharps to deal with. Then you'd have a low C string, G, D, A, and then E if you were having a 5 string. Is that what you were asking?

hentor · #4 07-12-2008, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

Maybe I'm misunderstanding all this...

The Bass is already tuned in 5ths...

I

Actually it's tuned in 4ths (E, f, g, A, b, c, D, e, f, G)...violins, violas, cellos, mandolins (G, a, b, c, D, e, f, g, A, b, c, d, E) are tuned in 5ths.

mutedeity · #5 07-12-2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hentor

Actually it's tuned in 4ths (E, f, g, A, b, c, D, e, f, G)...violins, violas, cellos, mandolins (G, a, b, c, D, e, f, g, A, b, c, d, E) are tuned in 5ths.

Seems to me that you are in turn confused about what 4ths are. It's not every 4th note of the scale. It's every P4 interval. Other than that you are correct, with the exception of mandolin, which I am not so sure about. I will get back to you on that one.

bassteban · #6 07-12-2008, 07:03 AM

Mandolins are, I believe, tuned in 5ths.
But just to add some mud,

aren't upright basses considered 'contra' basses? Be gentle w/me- I'm not fully awake yet...

Richard Lindsey · #7 07-12-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Seems to me that you are in turn confused about what 4ths are. It's not every 4th note of the scale. It's every P4 interval. Other than that you are correct, with the exception of mandolin, which I am not so sure about. I will get back to you on that one.

He doesn't seem confused to me. The bold notes are indeed P4 intervals, one to the next. And actually, as you know, 4ths are indeed any interval of a 4th from the starting point; they don't technically have to be P4s (though I admit the uses for a diminished 4th would not be many).

Yes, a mandolin is tuned in 5ths, just like a violin. In fact, the whole mandolin family echoes the violin family in this regard: a mandola is tuned like a viola, a mandocello is tuned like a cello, and a mandobass is tuned like a bass viol.

**Pacman** · #8 07-12-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Seems to me that you are in turn confused about what 4ths are. It's not every 4th note of the scale. It's every P4 interval. Other than that you are correct, with the exception of mandolin, which I am not so sure about. I will get back to you on that one.

He's not confused at all. In fact, his explanation is perfect.

edit: I see Richard already beat me to it.

mutedeity · #9 07-12-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

He's not confused at all. In fact, his explanation is perfect.

edit: I see Richard already beat me to it.

Perfect? Any pun? I don't know why you want to argue this point, but his explanation doesn't work when you get to the interval between F and Bb, which is a P4. We tune in P4 intervals, not in intervals that are the 4th diatonic note from the root. By that explanation the next 4th would be B not Bb.

mutedeity · #10 07-12-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

He doesn't seem confused to me. The bold notes are indeed P4 intervals, one to the next. And actually, as you know, 4ths are indeed any interval of a 4th from the starting point; they don't technically have to be P4s (though I admit the uses for a diminished 4th would not be many).

Yes, a mandolin is tuned in 5ths, just like a violin. In fact, the whole mandolin family echoes the violin family in this regard: a mandola is tuned like a viola, a mandocello is tuned like a cello, and a mandobass is tuned like a bass viol.

Yes they are indeed P4 intervals, but by the explanation given it is incidental. No, they don't technically have to be P4 intervals but then again they don't have to be anything specifically. Most examples you will find of extended range instruments will, if moving from F upwards, go to Bb, not to B.

Yes, you are correct about the Mandolin.

JehuJava · #11 07-12-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

The Bass is already tuned in 5ths...

Perfect fourths, bro.

In fifths...it would be E, B, F#, C# instead of E, A, D, G

bassteban · #12 07-12-2008, 09:45 AM

Or GDAE.

amandolin · #13 07-12-2008, 10:08 AM

Sure it's tuned in fifths -- they're just backward fifths.

JehuJava · #14 07-12-2008, 10:15 AM

Backward fifths...eureka!!

**Pacman** · #15 07-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Perfect? Any pun? I don't know why you want to argue this point, but his explanation doesn't work when you get to the interval between F and Bb, which is a P4. We tune in P4 intervals, not in intervals that are the 4th diatonic note from the root. By that explanation the next 4th would be B not Bb.

I'm not exactly sure why you want to argue the point - since he didn't post F to Bb. He posted E to A to D to G. How can you not see that? He didn't imply anything else....

Bushmaster · #16 07-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Actually, I do have both fretted and fretless 4-string basses tuned C1 G1 D2 A2 (an octave below cello) in my arsenal.

Standard bass tuning being E1 A1 D2 G2, so that the basses tuned in fifths offer a somewhat extended range (from two whole steps lower to one whole step higher).

More interesting about fifths tuning is that you have a lot of interesting intervals closer at your fingertips which might be convenient for building more colorful lines. It also comes handy for playing chords in wide spacing. You also might like that for tapping.

Strings I'm using is D'Addario Pro Steel in .030 - .050 - .080 - .125

Fifths tuning is a long established option for upright basses, too. Manufacturers like Thomastik-Infeld and Velvet offering suitable sets.

EADG mx · #17 07-12-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Seems to me that you are in turn confused about what 4ths are. It's not every 4th note of the scale. It's every P4 interval. Other than that you are correct, with the exception of mandolin, which I am not so sure about. I will get back to you on that one.

You're both right. Fourths are every fourth note, but you must add accidentals to make them Perfect.

In the key of C:

C D E F G A B(b) C D E(b) F G A(b) B C

To OP, it's not unheard of to tune a bass in 5ths. You don't need to go as low as Jauqo to do it. You could tune C G D A an octave below the cello. Many would argue that this range would be more practical as it contains the range of a 4 string in standard tuning, and extended range in either direction.

However if you wanted to start that low you could tune it like this:

C# G# D# A# E#

with that highest string being a minor 3rd above D on a 4 string in standard. So you would need a 5 string minimum

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #18 07-12-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [CRTL+ALT+DEL]

i wanna start the low string somewhere around where jauqo III-X's low string is and come up from there. so if i started down at c# and came up from there in fifths, how many strings would i have to have to get up to let say the d string on a regularly tuned 4 string bass.

Here's the notation for open strings on a 5-string bass with standard tuning (In perfect fourths):

And here's the notation for open strings on a 5-string bass starting from the low C# and tuned in perfect fifths:

In both cases, you actually hear the pitches one octave lower than written.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EADG mx

it's not unheard of to tune a bass in 5ths.

As far as I can recall, TBer Benjamin Strange tunes his bass (Or one of his basses, at least) in perfect fifths.

EADG mx · #19 07-12-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

As far as I can recall, TBer Benjamin Strange tunes his bass (Or one of his basses, at least) in perfect fifths.

I've heard of a few players (electric and DB) experimenting with this idea. I've considered it but I just don't think it's practical given the scale length of the bass and how much stretching it would involve.

interesting side note, Robert Fripp tunes his guitar (mostly) in 5ths.

[CRTL+ALT+DEL] · #20 07-12-2008, 12:15 PM

the baritone i'm using is tuned a e b f# c#, yes tuned in fifths like a cello, mandolin etc. gauges 72(74?) to 11 (i think), you know the celloblatser, the one the maestro alex "worldclass a-hole" gregory designed

and i don't have to start as low as jauqo, but i want to, doesn't have to be the same note, but somewhere close.

i want to get a bass and string it so it goes the next string lower from my baritone and keeps going down to where jauqo is...

i'm not sure how many strings i'd need to cover that range.

and yes some of those super low notes won't even be heard on a cheap sound system, but tuned in fifths an octave can be played simultaneously 2 frets up on the adjacent string

i'm learning theory as soon as i get to start playing again, i swear