Converting from Guitar

[SolidFooting]

I started playing guitar about 25 years ago, and got my first bass nine years ago. Since then I've played on and off, but lately I find I've been playing more bass than guitar. I also find I'm enjoying bass more.

As a musician with multiple music degrees and a strong background in music theory, I find bass allows me to use what I know in a way guitar doesn't allow. It seems like I have more control of the flow of the music somehow. Anyway, for whatever reason, I think I want to start taking bass seriously. I think I want to make it my primary instrument.

I recognize the (often deserved) stigma over converted guitarists, and would like to do what I can to overcome many of the issues guitarists generally encounter when they switch to bass. I've already realized I don't listen to the drums enough, and I'm trying to learn how to mirror the drummer in what I play. But what are some other things I should consider? What advice would you give to someone switching from guitar to bass? What are the frequent mistakes we make? (Overplaying, etc.)

Thanks,
David

[Valiant Bandit]

Do you play drums? I'm known for my drum playing which made switching to bass quite easy.

Know your role : You're no longer a guitarist - you're a bassist. You're not supposed to be up in front soloing on a bass...(Although it is cool.) You play alongside the drummer and mirror his/her rythm and translate it into notes.

Don't try to do "too much". Some of the best bass lines are 3 notes.
I can't stress the importance of playing alongside the drummer...I always viewed bass as half percussion and half string and although bass is a "backround instrument", it is the GLUE to any song. Look at it this way:

Drums are a human body.
Bass is its heartbeat.
Guitar is its makeup. :P

[SolidFooting]

Thanks. I don't play drums, but I'm starting to realize the importance of what you're saying. I recently came across this instructional video by Doug Wimbish:

Doug Wimbish on the Role of the Bass Player - YouTube

It was sort of a revelation to me...

[Robin Ruscio]

I have a professional level playing friend who plays great guitar, and is a very good bassist.

And yes, he overplays! I wish he would just focus more on creating stable parts and getting his groove solid. I learned this by playing guitar with him as the bassist! Interesting to switch both ways!

It makes me realize the impact the bassist has on my guitar playing, for better or worse.

[brendanbassist]

A good bassist uses his ears more than his hands; he listens to his bandmates more than his own playing. Bass lines are like spices; no good by themselves, but make everything else taste so much better.

[EagleMoon]

I've come to realize after many years of playing that the bass is really just drums with notes. You have to approach it as a rhythm instrument that sets the foundation of the music.

[SolidFooting]

Brendan - So do good guitarists, imho. One thing in my favor is I've played a lot more rhythm than lead. Learning to play bass correctly is also teaching me what a lousy keyboard player I am.

[jefkritz]

Originally Posted by SolidFooting

Thanks. I don't play drums, but I'm starting to realize the importance of what you're saying. I recently came across this instructional video by Doug Wimbish:

Doug Wimbish on the Role of the Bass Player - YouTube

It was sort of a revelation to me...

HOLY CRAP! what was that at 0:26? I can't get that sound for the life of me. back to the shed i s'pose...

/end derailment

[Valiant Bandit]

Originally Posted by SolidFooting

Brendan - So do good guitarists, imho. One thing in my favor is I've played a lot more rhythm than lead. Learning to play bass correctly is also teaching me what a lousy keyboard player I am.

Lead guitarists are their own breed...Like Slash, Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix.

Imagine Slash playing bass? He'd be awful.
I play a multitude of instruments and I attribute my great musical ear to the fact that I'm a mediocre pianist. I may not be able to play Mozart, but I have good piano playing technique and that's why I can type so quickly...( I pounded this response out in less than a minute...ahahaha I'm like one of those Court Stenographers.)

Honestly I'd rather "Under-do it" than "Over do it" on a bass line. I don't know if you've heard of the band called "Brand New" but their music is the prime example of a great bassist:

Their bassist plays maybe 5 notes? But man without those notes, the song would blow...Plus if you over-play it, (Which is easy to do.) it doesn't sound nearly as good and it takes away from the dark vibe that the songs are supposed to have. I find most great bassists are very down to earth and have great humility because it takes A LOT of humility to stand there / rock out for 5 minutes and only play 5 notes...(Unless it's progressive rock...Omg those time signatures...Ahhh...It's killer.)

When you pick up your bass, close your eyes and envision yourself as a drummer with strings.

[ghostdog93]

This might help a bit:

The Role Of The Bass

[sloppy_phil]

i initially found it difficult to get my two-finger speed/dexterity up to par with my pick playing on guitar. I refuse to use a pick with the bass (even for Yes...:S), so I had to learn to get my finger-walking up to speed. try plucking out some 8th and 16th note melodies. If you can get the timing consistent, but also importantly, get the sound out of each finger consistent with the other, then you're off to a good start. of course, if you prefer the idea of using a pick, well then all power to you in the easy transfer-over!

Also, because the strings are way thicker than you'll see on a guitar, you've gotta learn to fret with a little more authority or else some of your notes will sound muffled and crappy from lack of clean pressure on them

Many people have given, and will probably continue to give, good advice in regards to the role of bass/over-playing. It really does depend on the genre though, to some degree.... at least IME. I think it's only overplaying when it doesn't mesh correctly with everything else going on. Sometimes I just loves me some wicked busy bass lines!

[darkstorm]

I think guitar playing benefited my bass playing actually. And vice versa.

[SolidFooting]

Originally Posted by jefkritz

HOLY CRAP! what was that at 0:26? I can't get that sound for the life of me. back to the shed i s'pose...

/end derailment

It's Doug Wimbish. He's no slouch.

Originally Posted by Valiant Bandit

Lead guitarists are their own breed...Like Slash, Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix.

Imagine Slash playing bass? He'd be awful.
I play a multitude of instruments and I attribute my great musical ear to the fact that I'm a mediocre pianist. I may not be able to play Mozart, but I have good piano playing technique

I find I draw more inspiration from my piano playing than from my guitar playing. As for Slash, Clapton, and Hendrix, well...now I can't get over guys like Jack Bruce and John Entwistle. Wow.

Originally Posted by ghostdog93

This might help a bit:

The Role Of The Bass

Read that whole site. It's great.

Originally Posted by sloppy_phil

i initially found it difficult to get my two-finger speed/dexterity up to par with my pick playing on guitar. I refuse to use a pick with the bass (even for Yes...:S), so I had to learn to get my finger-walking up to speed. try plucking out some 8th and 16th note melodies. If you can get the timing consistent, but also importantly, get the sound out of each finger consistent with the other, then you're off to a good start. of course, if you prefer the idea of using a pick, well then all power to you in the easy transfer-over!

I've got a good bit of experience finger picking. I seem to have problems JUST playing with two fingers. I can do it and keep an even tempo and sound with two fingers, but I find that I prefer playing the root with my thumb and the rest of the notes with my other fingers. It's a dead giveaway that I'm a guitar player, but I can't think of a good reason not to do it. The thumb sounds fine, and if I need to play a faster rhythm, I just switch to those two fingers (or a pick). Am I missing something?

***************************

Great advice, everyone! Thanks a lot!!

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by SolidFooting

Brendan - So do good guitarists, imho. One thing in my favor is I've played a lot more rhythm than lead. Learning to play bass correctly is also teaching me what a lousy keyboard player I am.

I play bass and drums as well as guitar and studied piano for years. I also still suck on keys, but this gives me some perspective on the roles of various instruments. Rhythm guitar is very important to understand here as it relates to bass and drums as you move away from guitar. Basically bass drums and rhythm guitar in a band are or used to be called the "rhythm section". They are concerned with the groove. They create it and make it work. Basically they work with just rhythm and harmony.

Drums are mostly rhythm instruments. I say mostly because there is some pitch in toms or conga drums etc. which at minimum should at least not interfere with the harmony if not actually musically supporting it.

Bass does both rhythm and sets root notes for harmony. This gives bass exceptional control over the band. You can come to a rhythm meeting of the minds with the drummer and through choice of notes force adjustments on the harmony of the rhythm guitar and even keys and lead as well.

Rhythm guitar is a step toward harmony and away from rhythm and therefore has less control.

But all THREE have to work together to make the groove. Notice in your video lesson that the bass drum has FORCE but no pitch. So when you play a bass note along with the bass drum it gives that note exceptional force! If you play it without the bass drum it loses force. Note that the snare plays opposite the beat (1) (called back beat) and is high pitched. Hence the same force/no force rules apply but higher pitched and ping ponged with the main pulse (as in video). Hat adds a certain color which fills the groove. You can add to that also.

(by the way, Will Calhoun is one Kick-butt drummer if you don't already know that...)

Since you are musically literate, I would strongly suggest you get a copy of the book The Funkmasters. It is a transcription of the bass, drum and rhythm guitar parts to a large selection of James Brown hits. Comes with two CDS as well. It is a MASTER CLASS in how drums, bass and rhythm guitar create a groove. You won't be sorry you looked into it.

[Newfirstbass]

Very nice thread mate, I gig as a drummer and guitar also, but recently started to play bass, having always loved the relationship between drums and bass, I am loving every moment with the bass and find it easier to be expressive than the guitar in a fluid way and combining the bass groove from the drums experiance- its a real pleasure to play

[delta7fred]

Originally Posted by Robin Ruscio

I have a professional level playing friend who plays great guitar, and is a very good bassist.

And yes, he overplays! I wish he would just focus more on creating stable parts and getting his groove solid. I learned this by playing guitar with him as the bassist! Interesting to switch both ways!

It makes me realize the impact the bassist has on my guitar playing, for better or worse.

I completely understand this, I learned guitar and bass almost together (but bass first). It took me years to stop overplaying on bass.

Now I tend to keep things pretty simple as I sing backing a lot and lead a bit. But occasionally I will sneak a little flourish in just because I can.

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by SolidFooting

I've got a good bit of experience finger picking. I seem to have problems JUST playing with two fingers. I can do it and keep an even tempo and sound with two fingers, but I find that I prefer playing the root with my thumb and the rest of the notes with my other fingers. It's a dead giveaway that I'm a guitar player, but I can't think of a good reason not to do it. The thumb sounds fine, and if I need to play a faster rhythm, I just switch to those two fingers (or a pick). Am I missing something?
***************************
Great advice, everyone! Thanks a lot!!

Yes you are missing something. While there are no cast in concrete rules of how to play with fingers, And there are wonderful exceptions like Jamerson who played with just one finger and early players who played with just their thumb (note "tug-bar" on vintage Fender basses), playing finger picking style with thumb and first two fingers is usually NOT something you want to practice or learn on a bass. The reason is that getting a proper sound often requires a lot of damping (muting) technique on the strings. There are different ways to do this, but I've found that especially on 6 or 7 string basses it's not only essential but that it takes two hands. Hence my thumb shifts from being a support resting either on a pickup, bass body, thumbrest, ramp or the like to laying across the lower strings to damp them as needed. I damp the higher strings with my fretting hand by touching them without pushing them down. Damping is a whole (important) subject for bass! I urge you to look into it as you develop your own plucking ideas.

Now there IS a guitar technique I do use and practice. And that is to pluck with first THREE fingers rather than just two. I picked it up off some educational bass video. It's supposedly some flamenco guitar technique. (I don't play flamenco guitar) What you do is play 1/8th or 1/16th notes 1,2,3,2 (one ee an ah, etc.) and then start again with 1. (Numbers are your fingers 1= first finger, 2= second etc.) I'm not really good at it yet, but I have reached the point where I can smoothly switch back and forth between two and tree finger plucking with no problem. Give it a try.

[bzmnt]

Like many have said, usually, if you're thinking whether to play more or less notes in a line, the less often is better. I think it is also more difficult to pick just the right notes.

But I also have read from Bass Player numerous interviews of players who say something like " I used to play a lot but then I realised less is more and I keep myself in check". And that usually means they play the root and take one step behind.

It is not the only answer either and to me sounds a bit uncreative. There are many fantastic bass players who, besides that they can create the best, loose, 3 note groove, can react to the harmonic content of the song and play counterpoints, tensions, chordal structures without sounding too busy or overplaying. And that's very difficult and challenging too. And I'm not just talking about fusion or jazz but any kind of music.

[Joe Nerve]

Guitar was my main instrument for about 12 years before realizing I was born a bass player. I think learning countless songs helped me make a solid transition. Practicing relentlessly with a metronome, consciously concentrating on creating and changing grooves while doing so helped. Learning a whole bunch of motown songs I think really kicked me into a new dimension (was NOT my playing style at the time). And playing from my gut and groin as opposed to my head I think really had an effect. I 'feel' the bass a lot more than I 'felt' the guitar. Really being aware of the difference there helped a lot.

[PatQ]

+1 on muting. I read an interview with a drummer a few months ago and there was one advice he had for bass players: "Watch the length of your notes". I didn't think much about it first, but remebered when I practiced with a drummer. Of course I knew about muting and the length of notes, but it's funny how different it feels when you observe this while you play. Maybe a no-brainer for most of us, but one of all those small things that can make you better.