Counting intervals and notes

[fearceol]

Hi,

Why is it that when you are counting intervals/frets you dont include the one you are on :
eg: the number of intervals between C and E is four, yet E is the third note of the C scale. Would it not have been easier to have the two rules the same where D would be the first note therefore E would be the second ? I have a problem sometimes remembering which is which. Is there a reason why this is the case?

Thanks.

[lowerclef]

When you speak of C to E being four "intervals" away, you're talking about the chromatic scale, which moves in half-steps. This would be like playing all the keys of a piano in consecutive order. So starting on C, you go to C# D D# E.

Scales are a combination of half-steps and whole-steps (usually). In C major, yes E is the third because you go C D E, but the distance between C and D and D and E is a whole step each (or four half-steps).

Make sense?

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Hi,

Why is it that when you are counting intervals/frets you dont include the one you are on :
eg: the number of intervals between C and E is four, yet E is the third note of the C scale. Would it not have been easier to have the two rules the same where D would be the first note therefore E would be the second ? I have a problem sometimes remembering which is which. Is there a reason why this is the case?

Thanks.

an interval is the just harmonic distance between any two notes, and you'll confuse people if you use the word 'interval' in place of 'semitone'

other than that, I don't understand the question

[tjh]

yup, its a matter of terminology ... kind of like going to buy a car and asking the seller "Whats the mileage?" ... he may tell you how many miles are on the beast, and you wanted to know how many MPG the car gets ... an interval is referring to the relationshp between two notes of a scale in terms of pitch (harmonic distance, as mentioned), and the spacing between notes on a fretboard/keyboard are usually referred to as 'half steps' (semi-tones) apart ... if you start mixing general usage terms, you will drive yourself (and others) nutz!

[fearceol]

OK guys, please excuse my ignorance
I'll try and rephrase the question. I'm confused as to why, with your finger on C you move four semitones on the fret board to bring you to E . In this case you dont count the note you start from (C). In the C major scale when counting up the notes you do include the note you start on , eg: C =1 D=2 ect Hope this makes the question a little clearer.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by fearceol

OK guys, please excuse my ignorance
I'll try and rephrase the question. I'm confused as to why, with your finger on C you move four semitones on the fret board to bring you to E . In this case you dont count the note you start from (C). In the C major scale when counting up the notes you do include the note you start on , eg: C =1 D=2 ect Hope this makes the question a little clearer.

I don't understand why you are worried about it. In music theory they refer to the notes of the scale by numbering them from 1...8, so they can discuss them and the distance between them. Also remember scales are combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones. So a third is the distance between the 1st degree to the 3rd scale degree. Also the distance between 2nd degree to 4th scale degree is a third. If you dig in to theory more there are Major-3rd's and Minor-3rds. If you want to use Zero as a number in music read Victor Wooten latest book The Music Lesson, and then can think of Rests as Zero, silence.

Now the bass or all the Western instruments I can think of are built based on half-steps or semitones. This is dones so they can play any scale, any key. Look at a piano count the keys (black and white) between C and E and your same number shows up.

So your confusion IME is coming from comparing a physical instrument designed to accomodate any scale or key by using half-step/semitone increments. To Music scale theory, where scales are built on combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones. Also intervals which can be major or minor, diminish or augmented. So a musical instrument based on half-steps/semitones can play any of those intervals/distances.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by DocBop

I don't understand why you are worried about it. In music theory they refer to the notes of the scale by numbering them from 1...8, so they can discuss them and the distance between them. Also remember scales are combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones. So a third is the distance between the 1st degree to the 3rd scale degree. Also the distance between 2nd degree to 4th scale degree is a third. If you dig in to theory more there are Major-3rd's and Minor-3rds. If you want to use Zero as a number in music read Victor Wooten latest book The Music Lesson, and then can think of Rests as Zero, silence.

Now the bass or all the Western instruments I can think of are built based on half-steps or semitones. This is dones so they can play any scale, any key. Look at a piano count the keys (black and white) between C and E and your same number shows up.

So your confusion IME is coming from comparing a physical instrument designed to accomodate any scale or key by using half-step/semitone increments. To Music scale theory, where scales are built on combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones.

Thanks Doc. I guess I was confusing physical with theory. Anyhow you've explained it well.
Thanks also to the others who replied.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by DocBop

I don't understand why you are worried about it. In music theory they refer to the notes of the scale by numbering them from 1...8, so they can discuss them and the distance between them. Also remember scales are combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones. So a third is the distance between the 1st degree to the 3rd scale degree. Also the distance between 2nd degree to 4th scale degree is a third. If you dig in to theory more there are Major-3rd's and Minor-3rds. If you want to use Zero as a number in music read Victor Wooten latest book The Music Lesson, and then can think of Rests as Zero, silence.

Now the bass or all the Western instruments I can think of are built based on half-steps or semitones. This is dones so they can play any scale, any key. Look at a piano count the keys (black and white) between C and E and your same number shows up.

So your confusion IME is coming from comparing a physical instrument designed to accomodate any scale or key by using half-step/semitone increments. To Music scale theory, where scales are built on combinations of whole-steps and half-steps/semitones. Also intervals which can be major or minor, diminish or augmented. So a musical instrument based on half-steps/semitones can play any of those intervals/distances.

Thanks for a good read. You have an easy to understand way of explaining a difficult subject.

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by fearceol

OK guys, please excuse my ignorance
I'll try and rephrase the question. I'm confused as to why, with your finger on C you move four semitones on the fret board to bring you to E . In this case you dont count the note you start from (C). In the C major scale when counting up the notes you do include the note you start on , eg: C =1 D=2 ect Hope this makes the question a little clearer.

It's like counting inches on a ruler - you measure six inches, and you actually have seven numbers (0,1,2,3,4,5,6) or frets, but there are just six inches (or distances between frets, a.k.a. half-tones, semi-tones, etc.).

Are you counting notes in a scale, or are you measuring the distance between two notes?

- Bill

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by BillMason

It's like counting inches on a ruler - you measure six inches, and you actually have seven numbers (0,1,2,3,4,5,6) or frets, but there are just six inches (or distances between frets, a.k.a. half-tones, semi-tones, etc.).

Are you counting notes in a scale, or are you measuring the distance between two notes?

- Bill

Thanks Bill

Between your post and the others I can see the logic. As I said to DocBop, I was confusing the physical counting of semitones on the fretboard with the actual counting of the notes of a scale. I dont know how I came to make that mistake as it seems so obvious now.

Thanks again to all.