Counting vs Feeling it

mward69 · #1 07-10-2009, 12:29 PM

Kinda of a highjack from the thread on odd timing...
Who here actually counts?
I've been a feel it player myself...or I just can't count and hit my marks

wsmerwin@hotmai · #2 07-10-2009, 12:38 PM

You have to count to be accurate and feel to be in the groove. You can't have one without the other an not make mistakes. Isn't there something about walking and chewing gum ...

mward69 · #3 07-10-2009, 01:26 PM

yeah I know you need to count on some stuff, like a drum intro, or maybe a break..even then my timing on hitting my "mark" get's messed up if I count it

I just "feel" it...maybe I need to work on that..but heck it's worked for me for 20 yrs..most the time

the_man_dan · #4 07-10-2009, 01:26 PM

I both count and feel it. I have been in music for 7 or so years, and I've used both, depending on the song/style.

PSPookie · #5 07-10-2009, 01:29 PM

I tend to count it until I get a feel for it. That is: if i count it enough times I start to just feel it.

Earthday · #6 07-10-2009, 01:29 PM

I counted in my early days. Eventually counting just became another subconscious part of "feeling it".

Sandvich Hero · #7 07-10-2009, 01:37 PM

Quoting Bootsy the Great from his highly educational funk formula video :

ONE
hu hu hu hu
hu hu hu hu
ya know!
ONE
than you can change it
huhu huhu hu
ya know!

One, Two, ya know, Four

JimmyM · #8 07-10-2009, 01:43 PM

Why do counting and feeling it have to be mutually exclusive concepts? They're really not.

Febs · #9 07-10-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Why do counting and feeling it have to be mutually exclusive concepts? They're really not.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Meyatch · #10 07-10-2009, 01:44 PM

I tend to get frustrated very quickly with people that can't do both.

HaVIC5 · #11 07-10-2009, 02:17 PM

I'd love to see somebody get by "feeling" mixed meter grooves when they're sight-reading them.

wsmerwin@hotmai · #12 07-10-2009, 02:22 PM

I don't know if you need this explanation or not but the thing about counting is to anticipate where the beat occurs and play simultaneously (or at least in time) with the next beat. We don't count one, two, three, four, one then play; we play on the one, getting the feel for where it (one) will fall by counting.

Lots of things will throw off accurate counting of a beat or tempo but they can be worked through and eventually overcome. Using a metronome to practice and play with is one way, learning to identify the time cycle of a phrase in a song is another.

If getting by most of the time is enough for you, great! If you want to be a better musician, and feel working on time will help, fantastic. If I have gone up the wrong tree, I apologize.

Check out Sister Moon on Herbie Hancock's Possibilities or Filthy Habits from Frank Zappa's Sleep Dirt and try counting and feeling the beat.

Drifta · #13 07-10-2009, 02:24 PM

i've been playing for like 5 years and recently started lessons.. man o man counting is so hard, and i got a decent sense of timing but counting and playing the simpliest of things has been a real challenge. reading rhythm notation is what i'm working on

wsmerwin@hotmai · #14 07-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drifta

i've been playing for like 5 years and recently started lessons.. man o man counting is so hard, and i got a decent sense of timing but counting and playing the simpliest of things has been a real challenge. reading rhythm notation is what i'm working on

Hang in there man. It's really worth it in the end.

Winterpegbass · #15 07-10-2009, 02:34 PM

My goal is always to "feel" it but if I'm reading music I'll usually count it the first couple of times.

If I'm playing a repetative part I used to and somtimes still count the bars initially but feel them after a few times through. I can easily feel the 4 bar mark, 8, 16 etc

I attended a jazz clinic run by NYC (well la tee da) session guys who when asked the question about playing and counting mixed and/or odd time signatures, stated that the goal was to feel the rhythm.

JimmyM · #16 07-10-2009, 02:52 PM

The goal IS to feel the rhythm, but how do we figure out the feel of the rhythm? By counting until it's second nature to us. Really, this shouldn't even be a discussion. You need to count until you feel it. And even once you're feeling it, you should still keep a count in the back of your mind just to keep you on the right track. They are not exclusive "one or the other" concepts. They work together.

Brad Johnson · #17 07-10-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Why do counting and feeling it have to be mutually exclusive concepts? They're really not.

I agree. "vs." doesn't apply. It brings "inhale vs. exhale" to mind when talking about breathing. Sure, some will say they only do one or the other but really...

Richard Lindsey · #18 07-10-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

The goal IS to feel the rhythm, but how do we figure out the feel of the rhythm? By counting until it's second nature to us. Really, this shouldn't even be a discussion. You need to count until you feel it. And even once you're feeling it, you should still keep a count in the back of your mind just to keep you on the right track. They are not exclusive "one or the other" concepts. They work together.

You could say that feeling is just internalized counting.

JohnnyPustular · #19 07-10-2009, 03:37 PM

If your band is playing James Brown, you better be counting!

Drifta · #20 07-10-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmerwin@hotmai

Hang in there man. It's really worth it in the end.

Thanks man, one thing that fudges me up is like saying the number in my head + tapping foot at same time... I mean if i can tap my foot i WILL be on time..of course not if i'm sight reading(which is my goal). so i find my self counting and not tapping my foot when practicing my reading rhythm notation, and i always remember my first bass teacher (who i respect alot, and would have kept studying with if i hadnt moved) used to preach never let your foot stop moving! lol its a work in progress. can't wait till it's second nature and i'm walking along to the standards @ the jazz jams...