coupla questions!

[krazyduck]

hi!

i've been playing for 'bout four months, and I have a few questions.


-I'm teaching myself using hal lenoards bass method, and I'm almost finished book one. I taught myself a couple of songs using tabs I found online like Schisim, Iron Man,Electric Funeral, Killing in the name. . .

now comes the questions.

1) how important is Note reading? I can struggle through it, but its much easier to just use tabs. should I bother with notes?

2) should I focus on the songs the book gives me, or random songs I like? will I gain more from songs from the book?

3) I Noticed that in songs like iron man and electric funeral the bass is basically doing the same as the lead guitar. is that common? is there a specific name for that?

4)i don't know how to play with a pick, should I put time into that Now, or do I habe time? similarly, I don't like the way slap & pop sounds, does that make me weired? everyone is always like- "oh, so you play bass? can you slap?" grrrhhh!

and that's all for now (i think).

[onlyclave]

1) Note reading is extremely important. The more you do it the easier it will become. Tabs are for the weak.

2) The songs in the book are there because they are focusing on a specific idea that corresponds to what the lesson is about. Don't ignore them but DO play what you like. You're playing bass because you like it, right? Not because someone else does...

3) In that style of music it is very common for the bass to play the same low note as the guitar (that's usually the ROOT of the chord. Where the chord gets its name). That practice is called "doubling the guitar".

4) You need to be able to get the sound out of your string in some way. If you don't want to play with a pick, that's cool. I never do. If you don't want to slap that's cool too. I've never been paid to do either one of those things so I never wasted much practice time on them.

[krazyduck]

1) Note reading is extremely important. The more you do it the easier it will become. Tabs are for the weak.

they might be for the weak,but will I gain from notes in the future?

2) The songs in the book are there because they are focusing on a specific idea that corresponds to what the lesson is about. Don't ignore them but DO play what you like. You're playing bass because you like it, right? Not because someone else does...

which should on I focus more?

3) In that style of music it is very common for the bass to play the same low note as the guitar (that's usually the ROOT of the chord. Where the chord gets its name). That practice is called "doubling the guitar".

4) You need to be able to get the sound out of your string in some way. If you don't want to play with a pick, that's cool. I never do. If you don't want to slap that's cool too. I've never been paid to do either one of those things so I never wasted much practice time on them.

cool!



thanks for the prompt answer.

[madbassist666]

the one problem with tabs is they dont include the rhythm and they are not always accurate plus they dont help you learn the notes or your fretboard at all which is extremely important , i recommend taking a theory class if you can, like he said in the previous post reading notation is extremely important, many bassist dont know how, you will struggle at first but the more you do it the better you will get. if you dont wish to use a pick thats cool like he said its your choice. as to the songs in the book, use them as tools to improve but dont focus to much on them, branch away into more complicated and enjoyable songs, the songs in the book are there to help you get of the ground but one you have mastered them its up to you to build your skills and gain some experience, in fact if you can get into a local jazz band in a couple of months or a blues group you will find that you will improve greatly, hell even a church band will help. do what it takes to get out and play with people and you will be surprised at how fast you improve!

Good Luck!

[krazyduck]

what songs will you suggest? (you can see my style from the songs I know already)

and what's all this talk about jazz? all bassists always mention it, but why?

[madbassist666]

well jazz (at least in my opinion) is a bassist play ground, bass is a fundamental part of jazz its a great way to be yourself and its fun! jazz is a very technical music without any rules what so ever! anyway just play what songs you like, if your into iron maiden work on songs like that but while learning Steve harris bass lines begin to form your own style its important to not become a parrot, dont copy other peoples work create your own, getting to that stage may take a while but play with the bass lines you learn and eventually you will stumble upon something you like and you will unknowingly begin to create your own style

[JTE]

The problem with tablature is that it conveys no musical information. It fosters the false idea that playing an instrument is a physical only process. Standard notation conveys real musical information- the intervals between notes, how they go together, rhythm, and harmony. Plus standard notation allows you to communicate with other musicians- it's easier to show them what YOU want to hear from them, and it allows you to learn from non-bass sources.

Do NOT approach note-reading as simply "put a finger here to get this note", but learn to HEAR what the notes are telling you before you play them.

jte

[DudeistMonk]

1) how important is Note reading? I can struggle through it, but its much easier to just use tabs. should I bother with notes?

Hal Leonard book 2 forces you to read for at least the first chapter or two before it gives you tabs again. Also everything else said is true, its worth knowing how to do it...it is hard to stay good at it in this world of tabbly convenience.

which should on I focus more?

Thats a good question...and it only gets harder to answer..."what should I practice now? scales? arpeggios? learn a song? ear training? rhythm exercises? soloing? walking lines?" I say do what challenges you the most for the first half a practice session and then do what seems like the most fun for the second half as a reward, or get an instructor and he will be like do these 3 things this week and look at you like this when you don't practice.

4)i don't know how to play with a pick, should I put time into that Now, or do I habe time? similarly, I don't like the way slap & pop sounds, does that make me weired? everyone is always like- "oh, so you play bass? can you slap?" grrrhhh!

I would say 90% of bassists find picks to be inferior, there is really no need, and there are tricks you can use to achieve a similar tone, like playing closer to the bridge and turning down your mids. I used to try and do a little of both when I started...I haven't held a pick in years though...also if you do want to use a pick get a really heavy thick one.

As for slap, it has its place (ie:funk)... In my opinion the only reason people are always like "can you slap!?" Is because lay folk tend to notice the bassist when he is slapping, and it was born out of style noted for its up front in your face bass. In other genres people tend to notice the lead guitar more and can't really differentiate the lines...but thats all opinion.

[RiddimKing]

Reading notation is important, or not. If you're primarily interested in playing rock or blues/rock, and primarily interested in the bass as it functions traditionally within those genres (i.e. not as a solo instrument), then you can get by just fine without learning notation. Lots of people here and historically many in great bands haven't been note readers. (I'm not arguing that there aren't benefits; I'm just saying you can make good music without knowing how to sight read.) Theory, on the other hand, is important no matter what kind of music you play or intend to: it gives you the understanding of what others have done, and provides guidelines for your own playing and creativity.

[JimmyM]

1. If you don't plan on doing anything but playing in bands where reading music isn't necessary, then reading music isn't necessary. But if you want to get the higher paying reading gigs (trust me, they almost always pay more), then it's very important.

2. Both. Lame book songs are in the books for a reason...because the author thinks they illustrate the point he's trying to make in a chapter. But learning songs you like will keep your interest up and make it fun for you.

3. Some call it "lead bass." I call it "bass." Whether playing a bunch of notes per second or playing whole notes, it's all playing bass.

4. Neither playing with a pick nor slapping will cost you gigs, unless you're going for gigs that require a pick or slapping. Hardly anyone requires pick playing these days, but a few gigs out there do occasionally call for slapping. But those are getting few and far between as well, as slap seems to be falling out of favor.

To sum up, it's up to you and what you want to do, but nobody has ever been canned from a gig for knowing too much.

[mambo4]

about notation reading:

I believe that an under appreciated advantage of notation reading is the improvement in rhythmic awareness it brings.
This conclusion comes from a couple years of studying notation in latin bass lines. I've posted elsewhere about this.

basically, before I really studied notation, I relied on memory for my rhythmic understanding, which is faulty and imprecise.
If I had a brain fart on stage, I was easily a bit fogged, and even if I could hit the Down beat accurately,
the rest of the bar was less tight than it oughtta be.

learning to notate rhythms turned this around for me. Although I am no monster sight reader today, even if I mess up (and I do) I know precisely which notes were off the beat and how to correct it.

so I guess I'm saying, learning notation has had a definite positive impact on my playing.

[krazyduck]

so I guess I'm saying, learning notation has had a definite positive impact on my playing.

that's the answer that is direct and to the point. I made up my mind, thanks!

[tswd]

Originally Posted by krazyduck

1) how important is Note reading? I can struggle through it, but its much easier to just use tabs. should I bother with notes?

For rock music, reading isn't important at all. Most of the musicians in that genre can't read music, either. So don't worry about it. It's well known that Paul McCartney can't read music. James Hetfield has said he doesn't even know what the notes are on the fretboard.

How good's your ear? If you can do just fine playing by ear, then forget about reading.

Originally Posted by krazyduck

2) should I focus on the songs the book gives me, or random songs I like? will I gain more from songs from the book?

You should do both. You learn different things from different songs. The songs in the book may teach you some nice technical stuff, but there's nothing like a good Nirvana song to teach you how far simplicity can go.

Originally Posted by krazyduck

3) I Noticed that in songs like iron man and electric funeral the bass is basically doing the same as the lead guitar. is that common? is there a specific name for that?

I don't know if there's a name for it, but it's extremely common in hard rock and heavy metal. That's one of the things that makes it sound so heavy.

Originally Posted by krazyduck

4)i don't know how to play with a pick, should I put time into that Now, or do I habe time? similarly, I don't like the way slap & pop sounds, does that make me weired? everyone is always like- "oh, so you play bass? can you slap?" grrrhhh!

Try a pick. If you like it, keep using it. If not, get rid of it. Same thing with slap. You don't like the sound? Don't play that way. Don't play stuff that you don't like the sound of. Then, if somebody asks you if you play slap, you just say "Nope" and move on.

[krazyduck]

How good's your ear? If you can do just fine playing by ear, then forget about reading.

not that great.

that brings another question to mind; will it get better over time?

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by krazyduck

not that great.

that brings another question to mind; will it get better over time?

Yes, but it will get better faster if you practice it specifically by (for example):

- transcribing songs/learning songs by ear

- practicing solfège

[Xanthyr]

If you're actively trying to learn songs without looking at tab or notation, then you'll eventually get it. Something I like to do a lot at night or when I can make the room pitch black is to just sit and play. You can't see your hands so you're not staring dead at your fretboard. I like doing this because all of a sudden I can hear my own music and feel it flow. Do this for a while, feel where the notes are on the fretboard (count from open, obviously) and then after a while of doing this, you start to recognize the notes.

Also by forcing yourself to not stare dead at your hand, it enables you to look around the room, the stage, the bus, or where ever you might be when you're playing. If you're able to look around while playing, you make whoever you're playing with feel more connected, and thus deliver a more powerful performance.


In short: Yes, yes it will get better, but only if you pay some attention to it.

[lexxmexx]

Although I am quite a proficient treble clef reader but I am still trying hard to get used to the bass clef but that's another story...

Anyway, I noticed that I have been learning songs by following the chord symbols (root notes) found on the internet and figuring out the connecting notes between the chords. Are there any benefits to this method or they are as bad as tabs?

[DudeistMonk]

Anyway, I noticed that I have been learning songs by following the chord symbols (root notes) found on the internet and figuring out the connecting notes between the chords. Are there any benefits to this method or they are as bad as tabs?

This is what I've been trying to do at the moment, at least this way I have a starting ground for figuring a song out. Of course its better than tabs, think about it you learn:

Names and sounds of chords
notes relative to the chords and what they sound like
how the bassist you are listening to is thinking
how the guitarist is thinking
The underlying patterns of the songs structure
how to play the song

With tab you get:
how to be a human juke box

[skeptikal]

Originally Posted by lexxmexx

Although I am quite a proficient treble clef reader but I am still trying hard to get used to the bass clef but that's another story...

That's my problem as well. I played Alto Sax for years. I've been doing this. The note trainer on musictheory.net has helped quite a bit. Everything is just 1 line/space lower. instead of the spaces of the treble FACE, on bass they are ACEG. The lines of treble are EGBDF, on bass it's GBDFA. But yea, the note trainer has helped with that.

http://musictheory.net/trainers/html/id82_en.html

[DudeistMonk]

The two little dots go around the F...also the spaces spell "ace" so easy to remember..."ace of bass", "ace at bass" whatever you wanna use....

but yeah it sucks trying to work in treble and bass clef interchangeably...my theory prof in college flopped between the two on tests...I got so many questions wrong cause I was thinking in the wrong clef.