Crap at Phrasing!!!

kynoch · #1 09-02-2009, 04:23 AM

Hello,

Phrasing is kicking my ass!!!!....I have been working on it a lot over the last few months and it just seems to suck... I´ve got the Ed Friedland book on bass improv and its good....but very little on the subject of phrasing.....I just seem to play the same things...I have tried singing out solos...but its always the same stuff that comes out....I wanna work more on transcribing...but many solos that I come across are insanely difficult to transcribe...anybody know any simpler stuff I could listen too????....or any help and advice...would be REALLY welcome!!!...I need some ideas!!!

SpawnofHastur · #2 09-02-2009, 05:36 AM

A phrase is the shortest 'unit' of a solo, if you will. Think of a solo as a paragraph, and a phrase as a sentence.

This metaphor is particularly apt. A phrase should be something that you can say comfortably in one breath- to get phrasing down, start playing something in a scale you like, and then take a deep breath and breath out as if you were speaking. If the run lasts continuously without a sense of 'completeness' for longer than that one breath, your phrasing isn't too good. Just work on it.

As for playing all the same stuff, learn more scales and how to use them. Add chromatics. My favourite scale at the moment is, for example, the whole tone scale, which can add extra spice over certain chords. Just experiment with scales you're not as familiar with. The wider your repertoire of possible scales to use, the less and less you'll sound 'samey'.

onlyclave · #3 09-02-2009, 08:11 AM

Search TB for HaVIC5's youtube videos on melodic phrasing. Or he will more than likely repost them in this thread

JTE · #4 09-02-2009, 08:53 AM

Um, then work on it by copying people who are good at it. That'd be great vocalists, and some improvisers. I'd recommend copping the exact phrasing from:

Frank Sinatra
Ella Fitzgerald
Oscar Peterson
Miles Davis
Wayne Shorter
Duane Allman
Toots Theilmann
Carlos Santana (who said he got it from copping Dionne Warwick's phrasing!)
Joni Mitchell
Louis Armstrong
Steve Winwood

John

Hoover · #5 09-04-2009, 07:45 AM

I took a course in grad school, the name of which escapes me, but it had to do with rhythmic development in improvisation or something like that. Anyhow, one of the exercises we would do in this class was choose Target Points for phrase endings -- e.g., beat 3, or beat 4 of measure 2, or the "and" of beat 3 in measure 4, etc. -- and then we would practice spontaneously improvising short solo phrases that would end exactly on those Target Points. Really helped develop foresight, awareness, and medium-range "planning" (sic) in improvisation.

HaVIC5 · #6 09-04-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Search TB for HaVIC5's youtube videos on melodic phrasing. Or he will more than likely repost them in this thread

Right on cue...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEs3yJQXM8s&

This video actually might cover things you already know, but still don't know how to go about internalizing it. The main thing I'd do is what you suggested....transcribe! Miles Davis solos off of "Kind of Blue" are considered a gold standard for the beginning transcriber, but you can also transcribe Paul Desmond (off of Dave Brubeck's album "Time Out") Lester Young and even Horace Silver for other very "accessible" solos that still swing like mad. Even on the so-called "simpler" solos, it will take a LONG time and a lot of patience to get all the notes and rhythms down, never mind all the nuance. I recommend never writing a transcription down until you've memorized how to play it on your instrument. That way, you're really connecting what's going on with how you play it on the bass.

Once you've gotten down the solo, however, write it out, and then proceed to analyze the crap out of it. This might be hard if you don't have that much of a theoretical background, but descriptive analysis is just as potent. Once you analyze every note for its function on the chord (passing tone? tension? chord tone? something else perhaps?), look at the phrase structure. Ask yourself, how long do the phrases last? What is the primary rhythmic pulse of the phrase (quarter, eighth, sixteenth?) What are the antecedent/consequent relationships between two phrases? What is the melodic contour of this phrase (rising/falling?) and what might that contour do in the antecedent/consequent relationship? How long is there rest between phrases? In a stream of constant eighth notes (sixteenth notes) can you break that into smaller phrase units? What is the motivic content of the phrases, and how, if at all, is it developed? Does it reappear later in the solo? As the solo progresses, how do the relationships between phrases change?

You can spend a lot of time with questions like these analyzing a solo, and the more questions you think of asking yourself, the deeper in it you will get. Once you've done this, start taking phrases of the solo and playing them verbatim (or not) in your solos. You'll quickly find what works for you (what you like) and what doesn't (what you don't like), and as soon as you figure out what you like, you'll have just added to your vocabulary. Even if its just a few notes out of the solo that you hold on to, that's plenty, because the ear training and analytical process will have contributed significantly to your musical awareness. Its a long, slow process, but its worth it.

Chris K · #7 09-04-2009, 11:33 PM

Great work! I really enjoyed the video.

Supports my theory that bass players, even relative beginners,should improve their hearing by playing simple melodies they already know (by ear).
That way they will build a melodic vocabulary, which is a tough job for bass players.

So I'm glad I doubled on horns for years.

kynoch · #8 09-05-2009, 01:50 AM

+1000....great video,

Thanks for the tips too....its those long transcription processes that are tough....but so worth it....I never thought about transcribing the solos on a kind of blue....but I know exactly what you mean...I will get on that ASAP!!!

ryco · #9 09-06-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEs3yJQXM8s&

I recommend never writing a transcription down until you've memorized how to play it on your instrument. That way, you're really connecting what's going on with how you play it on the bass.

I always learn something interesting from your posts, sir!
I've never heard this advice given before, but it makes absolute sense!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and taking the time to make video lessons.