Cycle 4/5 and modes

[akaTRENT]

So until i start lessons with the talented steve jenkins in month i have this guitard teaching me who happens to play bass. you know how that works....

Anyhow, He gave me the circle of fifths and all the modes. I know how to play the circle of fifths and back down through the fourths using the c major scale.

Where am i supposed to go from here? How do you know when its the right time to use 1 of the 7 modes?

Thanks guys.

[BrennP90]

I would start with practicing that in every key.

[akaTRENT]

Originally Posted by BrennP90

I would start with practicing that in every key.

So like instead of going from c to c go from say g to g , etc ?

[Rudreax]

I'll go by what JTE usually says and say this:

Make sure you know your chords and how they dictate where you're going in a song before you even think about modes, because they're only useful and can only be used correctly if you know about chords.

The circle of fifths/fourths aren't that hard to remember. You said you have them down so I won't get into that.

[JTE]

Rudreax-

Thanks, man! Saved me some typing

OK, to the OP- Learn the C major scale cold- that means you know it's C D E F G A B C, you know WHY it's those notes, and you know how to play it over at least two octaves, and you know what each note's going to sound like before you play it. If you don't have ALL of that together, you don't know the C major scale. You need to know how to play it starting at any part of the neck (which technically puts you into playing modes, but that's not important now). When you got that together, then work out the arpeggios of the harmonized C major scale (that'd be Cmaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj7, G7, Amin7, and Bmin7b5- and again you don't know it if you don't know ALL of why it's those chords, what they sound like as you play them, and how to find them anywhere on the neck).

Then after you got all that going well, then move up a fourth by doing all this again in the key of F. Then in Bb, etc.

jte

[akaTRENT]

Originally Posted by JTE

Rudreax-

Thanks, man! Saved me some typing

OK, to the OP- Learn the C major scale cold- that means you know it's C D E F G A B C, you know WHY it's those notes, and you know how to play it over at least two octaves, and you know what each note's going to sound like before you play it. If you don't have ALL of that together, you don't know the C major scale. You need to know how to play it starting at any part of the neck (which technically puts you into playing modes, but that's not important now). When you got that together, then work out the arpeggios of the harmonized C major scale (that'd be Cmaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj7, G7, Amin7, and Bmin7b5- and again you don't know it if you don't know ALL of why it's those chords, what they sound like as you play them, and how to find them anywhere on the neck).

Then after you got all that going well, then move up a fourth by doing all this again in the key of F. Then in Bb, etc.

jte

Know it cold, its those notes because its no sharps or flats, using the steps that make up a major scale w w h w w w h w working on the two octave thing, used to know it. past that is where you lost me so obviously tahts where i need work.

So the only other question i have is when some one says play in the jey of say "g" that means using the mode of g in a c major scale (5) which is mixolydian, and then running it through the cycle of fiths?

[G00D+~VIBES]

If you use the mode of G, but in the C scale, You will be in the key of C.

[BrennP90]

"Key of G" would be the Ionian pattern starting on G instead of C.

C ionian -> G ionian
D dorian -> A dorian
E phrygian -> B phrygian
F lydian -> C lydian
G mixolydian -> D mixolydian
A aeolian -> E aeolian
B locrian -> F# locrian

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

...when some one says play in the key of G that means using the mode of G in a C major scale (5) which is mixolydian, and then running it through the cycle of fifths?

No, not really.

The key of G is the harmonic and/melodic expression of the G major scale--the scale with one sharp (F#) in the key: GABCDEF#G

Forget modes for now. If you don't know the major and minor scales in all keys, you can't handle modes, because the major and melodic minor scales are the "parent scales" for the very modes you want to learn to use.

I also strongly agree that spelling verbally, singing, and then playing arpeggios for every type of triad and 7th chord (played anywhere on the neck) is crucial.

Obviously step one is knowing the name of every note on the instrument instantly.

[akaTRENT]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

No, not really.

The key of G is the harmonic and/melodic expression of the G major scale--the scale with one sharp (F#) in the key: GABCDEF#G

Forget modes for now. If you don't know the major and minor scales in all keys, you can't handle modes, because the major and melodic minor scales are the "parent scales" for the very modes you want to learn to use.

I also strongly agree that spelling verbally, singing, and then playing arpeggios for every type of triad and 7th chord (played anywhere on the neck) is crucial.

Obviously step one is knowing the name of every note on the instrument instantly.

Look likes i know step 1 then!

Ive been playing for almost 8 years now, and half had theory lessons over that time but im really digging in finally so i can finally learn it so i can master the instrument. thanks for the help guys

[Asher S]

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

So the only other question i have is when some one says play in the jey of say "g" that means using the mode of g in a c major scale (5) which is mixolydian, and then running it through the cycle of fiths?

"Modes" and the "circle of 5ths" are separate concepts.

There are plenty of posts on TB discussing all the history, rationale and the nuances of modes and key centers- just do a search.

The circle of 5ths is essentially a common chord progression found in many jazz standards. It can also be the subject of a PhD thesis, but the basics are also well outlined all over TB and the web.

So I suggest that if you want to understand both of these concepts, learn them separately first.