deadlock in playing.

[pandaman37]

ive been playing bass for about two years, and i feel ive gotten really good at my own style. not to sound arrogant, but when i play by myself with just a bass, when im strumming the chords and walking up to the roots and stuff its great, but its my own thing. its solo bass noodling; its pretty, but it wont get me very far.

what im saying is, ive gotten good at my own thing but have trouble with other music. like i can play songs, but the technique is always a struggle. like playing fast runs and funk and stuff. is it just one of those things that only experience can cure? cos i feel like im in a bit of a deadlock, i want to get better at other genres other than my own but i find it very difficult.

help, experiences? much appreciated -Nick

[Lo-E]

My best advice to you is: play with other people as much as you possibly can.

Take every opportunity. Try any style - whether it's a style you like or not. Don't say no to anyone, just get out there and play.

You will learn A LOT.

[Bassmickeyd]

Learning what you're playing and why you play it is a good start at understanding your style. ...... And then playing with others to help you feel you're contributing to the band and the music will help also. ..... Be patient, cause it takes a while.

[El-Bob]

+1 to the above, and learn to play along with tons of different songs from different styles. have friends suggest things if you don't know what to try. (for example i listen to a lot of metal, so i would never learn other things if i didn't have friends saying "hey, learn this!", because I wouldn't even know what it is.)

[sammyp]

it's great to be creative and have a personal identity and style .....a cover band would help to get around some of the other basses pardon the pun.....or just start learning tunes note for note in styles you're interested in ....hal leonard play along books are pretty cool for that sort of thing...

[Bassmickeyd]

Just by re-reading your post;
"and i feel ive gotten really good at my own style. not to sound arrogant, but when i play by myself with just a bass, when im strumming the chords and walking up to the roots and stuff its great, but its my own thing. its solo bass noodling; its pretty, but it wont get me very far."
You might do better by staying away from cover bands till you understand what & why you're playing like you do. ..... Some people do better in cover bands and others feel their creativity is limited in that style of band. ...... Trying to figure this out before hand can save you from wasting a lot of time if that's not where you want to be. .... Most original bands didn't spend too much time being cover bands.

[mambo4]

-1 to avoiding covers
The skills you gain in a cover band are immeasurable and will practically apply to original work down the road.
Don't avoid learning "unoriginal" music because you want to be "creative" -it doesn't actually work like that.

[SR505bassman]

Just a thought - in addition to the above, if you can find a good teacher, one that you click with - they can listen to you and understand where you are at, and offer suggestions about possible directions you might like to explore, and different ways that you might do that.

[paganjack]

Learning more music can only help you. Some people might say that learning covers will stifle your creativity but they are flat out wrong. Try to put yourself in the mindset of another player and you'll be able to incorporate aspects of their style (techniques, note choice etc) into your own.

[jay tay]

trying to play with others is good advice, it doesn't really matter at this stage if it's covers or original music, just playing with other people, you will learn much about arrangement of songs, and how you can make your playing fit in with a band context. but if you feel that you have reached a plateau technically, or are stuck in a bit of a rut, then I'd suggest taking some lessons.

I'm more or less self taught, and wouldn't have considered lessons until about a year ago. A friend of mine who is also a bass instructor just showed me a little technique, with finger tapping, and it opened up a few doors creatively for me, inspired me to write a few songs, and gave me a new dynamic to add to existing lines, and use in session work. I'll go to him about twice a year now, and he'll give me a lesson on either technique, or theory, and it helps my playing stay current, and keeps me trying out new things, and new ideas. Now I've been playing for about 15 years, and get regular session work, and have two bands on the go, so you are never too old, or too good to learn new tricks/skills.

[lucas vigor]

Originally Posted by pandaman37

ive been playing bass for about two years, and i feel ive gotten really good at my own style. not to sound arrogant, but when i play by myself with just a bass, when im strumming the chords and walking up to the roots and stuff its great, but its my own thing. its solo bass noodling; its pretty, but it wont get me very far.

what im saying is, ive gotten good at my own thing but have trouble with other music. like i can play songs, but the technique is always a struggle. like playing fast runs and funk and stuff. is it just one of those things that only experience can cure? cos i feel like im in a bit of a deadlock, i want to get better at other genres other than my own but i find it very difficult.

help, experiences? much appreciated -Nick

Here is the thing, Panda:

Two years is not a lot of time in, really. Don't expect too much of yourself at just two years experience level. bass playing isn't like Tae Kwon Do, where you can get a black belt in 2 years.

1. get a teacher
2. Start listening to many different styles. Broaden your horizons so you hear riffs and melodies and techniques you might not have listened to before. Try to find the top artists with the best bass players in each genre, and start checking out the music. Reggae? Bob marley. Prog rock? Rush. Modern country? Vince Gill, Funk? Slave, etc....you get the idea...
3. Make yourself a CD or songlist of covers and dedicate yourself to learning the bass parts note-for-note. This way, you also are learning new riffs and patterns that hopefully you can use later in your own stuff. Don't worry about copping someone else's style. There is no musician alive that hasn't done this at some point. Nothing is truly original.
4. Don't expect too much of yourself. If after 5-10 years of playing you still haven't improved, then maybe music is not for you but you have to have patience and be willing to accept that the task of learning will never be finished. Don't be too hard on yourself or overly critical. Most musicians start playing very early on. I myself started at age 6, and started playing bass at age 12. I am turning 47 soon, and am still learning, still improving!
5. Consider that some of the best bass lines in history were fairly simple to play. Some of the most rocking or swinging or grooving songs had easy bass parts that almost anyone can learn. You don't have to be Jaco or Hadrien Feraud or Tal Wilkenfield or Victor Wooten or even Geddy Lee to write a good bass line.


http://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/f-ride

http://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/sets/set-3/

[Bassmickeyd]

Originally Posted by mambo4

-1 to avoiding covers
The skills you gain in a cover band are immeasurable and will practically apply to original work down the road.
Don't avoid learning "unoriginal" music because you want to be "creative" -it doesn't actually work like that.

1) Not everyone needs to be and wants to be a jobbing musicians, and the way the industry is going more musicians should stop thinking that if 'they' do it 'this way' or they do it 'that way' the industry will suddenly change.
2) I read what the kid said and he's into what he's doing. He's not asking "how can I sound like this guy' or 'how can I be accepted by some cover band' he's asking for advice to continue what he feels good about himself right now.
3) Life's short so don't spend it being someone else.

[Setebos]

If you fill you are stuck.

1. Get a teacher. He will be able to spot your weaknesses and guide your learning process.

Regarding joining a band; I would say.... try to find one to join asap. Its an incredible experience. Doesnt matter if its a cover or original band.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by mambo4

-1 to avoiding covers
The skills you gain in a cover band are immeasurable and will practically apply to original work down the road.
Don't avoid learning "unoriginal" music because you want to be "creative" -it doesn't actually work like that.

+ 1000000000

[kraigo]

Listening and learning what other people do can only broaden your palette. In my own case I have to buckle down and work at it. The low hanging fruit has been gotten. Perhaps you are at the same point.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by Bassmickeyd

1) Not everyone needs to be and wants to be a jobbing musicians, and the way the industry is going more musicians should stop thinking that if 'they' do it 'this way' or they do it 'that way' the industry will suddenly change.
2) I read what the kid said and he's into what he's doing. He's not asking "how can I sound like this guy' or 'how can I be accepted by some cover band' he's asking for advice to continue what he feels good about himself right now.
3) Life's short so don't spend it being someone else.

What mambo said is very true. You will learn a lot playing covers. You can then use that learning to apply in "more creative" ways. You don't HAVE to spend your music career - even the weekend warrior type - playing classic rock covers. But you can definitely learn and move on from that.

Hell, most of jazz is all "covers". Standards that can be more than half a century old. The creative challenge is knowing how to improvise over those, knowing how to listen, knowing how to play well enough to play what you hear in your head.

[Testing_123]

Nick (the OP):

Music is a give-and-take. An exchange of information. A conversation.

That exchange can happen with other musicians, and/or with an audience. As bassists, we can build incredible technical skills working on our own, but I think it's difficult to stay motivated and "fresh" as a musician without some interactive component. What's the value in learning to speak a language if there's no one to talk with and no one listening?

My suggestions:

• It does take time, so be patient. I've been a bassist for 15+ years, have played in several different projects, played live in front of audiences of 10 and audiences of 1000, and recorded a bunch of stuff. At this point, I feel like I'm just starting to figure out my own voice as a musician and a bassist.
  
• It is great that you are open to analyzing and tinkering with ideas from music that's outside of your normal preferences. The more difficult a new style or technique is to learn, the more personally satisfying it is likely to feel when you have learned it.
  
• Find others to jam with.
  
• Start creating and recording your own music. Make it available for others to hear. Seek comments and feedback from others. Listen and use the feedback when it makes sense, and ignore it when it doesn't.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Bassmickeyd

2) I read what the kid said and he's into what he's doing. He's not asking "how can I sound like this guy' or 'how can I be accepted by some cover band' he's asking for advice to continue what he feels good about himself right now.

Re-read the original post. He likes what he is doing but has reached a plateau and is looking for advice on how to move past it. In fact, he specifically says, "I want to get better at other genres other than my own ..." Studying what others have done is a great way to learn.

By the way, I think that your comment "most original bands didn't spend too much time being cover bands" is not accurate. In fact, I think that the opposite is true--the most successful originals bands start by doing covers and then draw from that experience to create their own thing.

[JimmyM]

when you've run out of stuff to teach yourself, you find someone who knows more than you to teach you what they know. simple as that.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Bassmickeyd

1) Not everyone needs to be and wants to be a jobbing musicians, and the way the industry is going more musicians should stop thinking that if 'they' do it 'this way' or they do it 'that way' the industry will suddenly change.

My suggestion has nothing to do with being a "jobbing musician" or doing anything the "right way": I advocate playing in a cover band as a learning experience, sorry if I implied otherwise.
The practical skill set you need to hold your own in a cover band can directly and positively improve your output in any original setting (at least , that has been my experience.)
I speak not strictly of playing riffs and bass lines for popular songs, but of more broadly applicable skills:
-nurturing an efficient and practical practice / rehearsal /gig work ethic,
-learning to work with concrete and definite goals- both musical and promotional,
-holding your own in an ensemble, communicating with other musicians, etc etc etc.
-Not to mention the wealth of knowledge you will pick up from your band mates.
There is no substitute for on the job training.

That said, I suppose in the right original band, you could gain similar experience.
But they would need to have achieved competence at the things mentioned above
- a competence that most gigging cover bands would already have.

2) I read what the kid said and he's into what he's doing....

He also wrote :

I want to get better at other genres other than my own but i find it very difficult.

In my experience nothing makes you step up and deliver to like having a group counting on you to do just that.
Also, nothing will help you learn a new genre better than joining a group of enthusiasts.

3) Life's short so don't spend it being someone else.

I agree in principal with the sentiment, but it's a false choice fallacy to imply that one must either "play covers" or "be themselves"
I personally prefer playing original music, but I can thrive at it because of the broad range of skills, experience,
not to mention personal connections, I acquired playing covers and "genre" music.
So, for me it has proven its value. YMMV.