Determining Chord Progressions

[FrenchAK]

I am, by no means, a music theory expert; however, I am doing my best to learn. I am getting to the point where I can kind of "feel" and anticipate the chord progression in a song, but it is by no means foolproof, and I never really knew a pattern. But then I stumbled upon this video which I find extremely useful as a beginner in the wide world of theory.
Let me know if it's already on here, it's hard to search the forum for videos .

[whatiswhat]

the link didn't work

[FrenchAK]

Sorry about that, should be fine now.

[MalcolmAmos]

I've never heard it explained that way, however, everything she said is correct and does fit with accepted cord harmony. Certain chords do like to go to certain other chords, if we let them do what they like it normally sounds good.

I do not think she got around to this. Why have chords? They supply the harmony for the melody. Each song has three factors. Melody, Harmony and Rhythm. Set aside Rhythm for right now.

For the melody notes and the chords to be in harmony they should share some like notes at the same moment in the song, i.e. within the same measure is a safe bet.

I-IV-V or i-iv-v the three major or three minor chords contain every note in the tonic I's scale. So the I IV or V chords are all you need to harmonize any song that stays in the tonic scale. The other chords will sound good and you can not really mess up a lot by adding any of the other chords in that key, but, you can get by with the three - I IV V or if the song is being played in minor chords the three minor chords this now being i iv v. C would be the I IV V and Am whould be the i iv v.

So how do you pick out the chords being used. I assume some stuff. Remember what she said about lean left, lean right, stand up and fight. Lean left how does it sound? If not really great - lean right. How did it sound? You only have one more try it.....

Your type of music will have it's cookie cutter progressions, call up your music and see what is used more often. You can not go too wrong using that.

Good luck.

[Chris K]

Sorry Malcom, but IMHO her explanation is pretty standard.

The general idea she shows is:
I - iii - vi - ii - V7 - I.
An extended version is:
I - V7 - iii - vi - IV - ii - V7 - vii7 - I

Within the progressions IV - ii and V7 - vii7 you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, but always in that order.
Within the progression V7-iii you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, in any order.

If you choose to alter a chord (for example using II instead of ii), the altered chord always comes after the diatonic chord.

However, her claim that you may use this knowledge to find chord progressions is doubtful. Many popsongs do not follow the above patterns.

The best way to find the chords of existing songs is per chord and following these steps:
1. listen to the bass note
2. listen if you hear a perfect 5th to the bass note; if so, the bass note most probably is a root note. (If not, either the 5th is diminished or augmented - or the bass note is not the root; try all other options, like bass note = 3rd, 5th, 7th.)
3. try to make out if the chord is major or minor

Having done this, you got the basics down.

4. listen if a 7th is played an if it is minor or major
5. listen to hear any further chord extensions like 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and if they are major, minor, augmented, diminished.
6. Write down the notes you've got and identify the chord

[MalcolmAmos]

I had no problem with what she said.

[onlyclave]

I - iii - vi - ii - V7 - vi?

Whut? V went to vi...

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by Chris K

Sorry Malcom, but IMHO her explanation is pretty standard.

The general idea she shows is:
I - iii - vi - ii - V7 - I.
An extended version is:
I - V7 - iii - vi - IV - ii - V7 - vii7 - I

Within the progressions IV - ii and V7 - vii7 you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, but always in that order.
Within the progression V7-iii you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, in any order.

If you choose to alter a chord (for example using II instead of ii), the altered chord always comes after the diatonic chord.

However, her claim that you may use this knowledge to find chord progressions is doubtful. Many popsongs do not follow the above patterns.

The best way to find the chords of existing songs is per chord and following these steps:
1. listen to the bass note
2. listen if you hear a perfect 5th to the bass note; if so, the bass note most probably is a root note. (If not, either the 5th is diminished or augmented - or the bass note is not the root; try all other options, like bass note = 3rd, 5th, 7th.)
3. try to make out if the chord is major or minor

Having done this, you got the basics down.

4. listen if a 7th is played an if it is minor or major
5. listen to hear any further chord extensions like 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and if they are major, minor, augmented, diminished.
6. Write down the notes you've got and identify the chord

^THis.

The one exception I'd say is that the use of a seventh is not a big factor in pop music since a 7th can be used on every chord other the tonic. (Which is something jazz musicians will often do automatically and it can make something sound very corny).

And as far as hearing the extensions, again, for a bassist, especially a beginner, it isn't a big factor in what he'd play.

Learn to hear the root note and the melody note and you can figure out pretty much any chord.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

I - iii - vi - ii - V7 - vi?

Whut? V went to vi...

Could do in a deceptive cadence.

[Dogbertday]

Originally Posted by Chris K

Sorry Malcom, but IMHO her explanation is pretty standard.

The general idea she shows is:
I - iii - vi - ii - V7 - I.
An extended version is:
I - V7 - iii - vi - IV - ii - V7 - vii7 - I

Within the progressions IV - ii and V7 - vii7 you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, but always in that order.
Within the progression V7-iii you may use either the first chord or the second, or both, in any order.

If you choose to alter a chord (for example using II instead of ii), the altered chord always comes after the diatonic chord.

However, her claim that you may use this knowledge to find chord progressions is doubtful. Many popsongs do not follow the above patterns.

The best way to find the chords of existing songs is per chord and following these steps:
1. listen to the bass note
2. listen if you hear a perfect 5th to the bass note; if so, the bass note most probably is a root note. (If not, either the 5th is diminished or augmented - or the bass note is not the root; try all other options, like bass note = 3rd, 5th, 7th.)
3. try to make out if the chord is major or minor

Having done this, you got the basics down.

4. listen if a 7th is played an if it is minor or major
5. listen to hear any further chord extensions like 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th and if they are major, minor, augmented, diminished.
6. Write down the notes you've got and identify the chord

Modal Mixture or secondary dominants (II instead of ii) do not have to follow the diatonic chord. and that II is really V of V.

Also your chord order chart is flawed because there are many more options than what you listed. The simplest (in classical music) is I IV vii iii vi ii V I (works even better in Minor) and IV can sub for ii, vii can sub for V, and there are some other directional things doing on that would be easier explained if thye could be drawn out.

In pop music they V will very often go to the IV and the IV to the I or vi

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Could do in a deceptive cadence.

That's my point. Following the circle of fifths only works if you have root movement that way, but chord function is more important.

I-IV-V-I, tonic-subdominant-dominant-tonic.

I-ii-viio6-I, tonic-subdominant function-dominant function-tonic.

[MalcolmAmos]

For what it's worth I bookmarked it. IMO good information for beginners. I especially liked her analogy of the circle being a circle so rotate your tonic to 12:00 O'clock then lean left, lean right, stand up and fight.

Look to the right of the screen. She has several other lessons, all of which have value. Check out the playing by ear video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxo6...eature=related As each ends there will be another waiting for you. The 3rd one on playing by ear really gets into how to hear what chord will be next.

Have fun.