Developing better "Ear"

[metallicafan18]

I've been taking bass lessons for about 6-7 years now and I feel I have gotten very far. I play bass everyday, as well as 1-2 shows a week with bands. Within the past year, my bass teacher have been working on me being able to pick out the notes, chords, scales, etc..., of any given song that he plays. I am just not getting it. I know my scales pretty well, but I don't know how to apply them.

He wants me to get to the point of being able to listen to a song, and be able to pick out what is going on. I can do it, but it takes me forever to get it right, and I seem to hear notes that aren't being played. He has me playing around in scales and arpeggios and jamming in them so I know what each one sounds like to make it easier to pick out a given scale.


Are there any other good ways to help me out with my problem hearing a song and being able to tell what is going on?

[SurferJoe46]

Man - I dunnow - I don't have any of the formal training you have with theory and although I am taking lessons to learn that part of my musical skills, I gig and jam constantly without any problem at all - well, ALMOST no troubles at all.

If you can actually hear and/or see the guitarist and what chords he's hitting, you get a great big hint. I try to listen to him and the vocalist or horns and I can home in on the key almost instantly.

Changes can catch me on a new or obscure song that I don't know - but I can usually always box-it out if I just listen for the root.

I think a really big help is my playing the harmonica, as I've got to change harps for each and every key - and if you can hear the key of the song and the notes, you can grab the right one after short experience

I guess if you want to play with more 'ear', then maybe a course in note recognition is in order.

Perhaps just playing a pitch piper without looking at the key would help.

You'll soon be able to hear what key you're supposed to be playing in and then all your training should really come alive - I think so anyway.

Time - and experience is the best teacher I feel.

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Man - I dunnow - I don't have any of the formal training you have with theory and although I am taking lessons to learn that part of my musical skills, I gig and jam constantly without any problem at all - well, ALMOST no troubles at all.

If you can actually hear and/or see the guitarist and what chords he's hitting, you get a great big hint. I try to listen to him and the vocalist or horns and I can home in on the key almost instantly.

Changes can catch me on a new or obscure song that I don't know - but I can usually always box-it out if I just listen for the root.

I think a really big help is my playing the harmonica, as I've got to change harps for each and every key - and if you can hear the key of the song and the notes, you can grab the right one after short experience

I guess if you want to play with more 'ear', then maybe a course in note recognition is in order.

Perhaps just playing a pitch piper without looking at the key would help.

You'll soon be able to hear what key you're supposed to be playing in and then all your training should really come alive - I think so anyway.

Time - and experience is the best teacher I feel.

I can easily jam with a group of guys, but when it comes to sitting down and listening to a structured song, I don't know where to start. I just blindly play notes until I found the right one, then I go from there.

Can you explain more of this note recognition thing? That sounds like it may help.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Working with your teacher to pick out notes and the ear training portion probably should have occurred all along in the 6-7 years you were playing instead of just starting within the past year. Continue with that, and focus a lot (but maybe not exclusively) on that.

One of the best things I ever did, and still do, is to sit down with a radio (now internet radio, youtube, or xm or pandora or...) and play along to everything you can, as best you can. Play along with country, rock, blues, jazz, and anything really. Bonus points for being able to rewind and replay the song so you can focus on the nuances and play it note for note. It will sharpen up your ear, stylistic sensibilities for each genre, and make you more comfortable to make educated guesses as to where the song is going even if you haven't heard it before.

Sometimes I'll just sit down and listen to some XM country station and spend an hour trying play along to anything as note-for-note as much as I can even on the first pass. Or sometimes it's the jazz station or... ...such quick on your feet thinking would probably help you a lot to develop.

There's tons of things you can do to help your ear. I've found none better than sitting down for as long as you can, playing as many different genres you can, as well as you can. Productive. Focused. Effective. Practice.

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by metallicafan18

I can easily jam with a group of guys, but when it comes to sitting down and listening to a structured song, I don't know where to start. I just blindly play notes until I found the right one, then I go from there.

Can you explain more of this note recognition thing? That sounds like it may help.

Like he said above ^^^ - I play along with almost anything except Rap; it doesn't seem to have much musical, harmony structure.

If you don't recognize the barre-position of the guitarist for your key-hint, then you'll just have to practice recognizing the key he's in.

One warning though about playing with a broadcast or streamed MP3 or whatever:: Watch out that you don't hit a song or two that's slightly flat or sharp as recorded - that can mess with your ear pretty fast!

Some radio stations would speed up a current playlist to get a few more minutes of airtime in the hour. It's hard to recognize for some people - but somehow I can always hear it anyway.

I bet this also goes on today too.

One of the best groups I 'Stream-Jam" with is ABBA (I know - fluff - but some really intense chord and key changes!) and The Allman Brothers or The Eagles. Try playing to ABBA's "Fernando" and see how the changes can grab ya by the short hairs!

If you have any CDs at home that you musically recognize and you can play with them where you listen to them LOUDLY - then that's a really big help too.

Why loud? Because you'll never have the opportunity to play in a live situation it seems, with low volume. Low volume intimidates some people when they think they will stick out.

I find that loud music can really jangle you and that's an excellent training ground. Playing 'under fire' is always the acid proving ground.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by Thunderthumbs73

.....One of the best things I ever did, and still do, is to sit down with a radio (now internet radio, youtube, or xm or pandora or...) and play along to everything you can, as best you can. Play along with country, rock, blues, jazz, and anything really. Bonus points for being able to rewind and replay the song so you can focus on the nuances and play it note for note. It will sharpen up your ear, stylistic sensibilities for each genre, and make you more comfortable to make educated guesses as to where the song is going even if you haven't heard it before.

Amen to this. Also, try just playing melodies that you know. Easy folk songs, childrens songs, church hymns... whatever melodies you can sing easily. It all comes down to ear-to-finger coordination. Being able to hear an interval and say, "oh, that's a minor third" is OK... but in the end your fingers have to find the right place for those pitches. So any eartraining you do.... do with your bass in hand.

And remember, its a process, not an event. It takes lots of continued work. Some people just get it faster than others, that's not a port of the subject. You have to do what's right for you.

[metallicafan18]

I've done this a few times with sitting down and putting on the radio. I usually get it, but that it is a basic 3 chord song. Songs with a lot going on I just get at a total loss.

He's having me learn the song "Learn doo Wop" by Lauryn Hill for my lesson week me, and the song is kicking my @$$ at the moment.

[bkbirge]

Sing every note you play during practice. That's the essential exercise that will train your ear fast. Doing a scale? Sing the notes. Rhythm exercise? Sing the notes. You can also use some online flashcard type training, there's a couple free ones that will test you on your interval skills which is what you need most to pick out parts.

[jgroh]

I took lessons for the first 3 years and I think I was in your same situation. I came along way with alot of things, but felt I couldnt really "play" if that makes sense. I quit, started trying to figure out by ear and playing along with all my CDs/radio and that alone took me farther than I probably would have if I stayed in lessons. It paid off as alot of times now, I can hear a song and pick out the notes that are being played and the pattern being used.

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by bkbirge

Sing every note you play during practice. That's the essential exercise that will train your ear fast. Doing a scale? Sing the notes. Rhythm exercise? Sing the notes. You can also use some online flashcard type training, there's a couple free ones that will test you on your interval skills which is what you need most to pick out parts.

This is exactly what my teacher has me doing. He wants me to hear the intervals, and be able to say what each interval is just by listening. This is the main thing I'm trying to work on.

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by Thunderthumbs73

One of the best things I ever did, and still do, is to sit down with a radio (now internet radio, youtube, or xm or pandora or...) and play along to everything you can, as best you can. Play along with country, rock, blues, jazz, and anything really. Bonus points for being able to rewind and replay the song so you can focus on the nuances and play it note for note. It will sharpen up your ear, stylistic sensibilities for each genre, and make you more comfortable to make educated guesses as to where the song is going even if you haven't heard it before.

There's tons of things you can do to help your ear. I've found none better than sitting down for as long as you can, playing as many different genres you can, as well as you can. Productive. Focused. Effective. Practice.

Excellent advice. If you do this often, you start to hear the sonority of the chords which will help you identify them. For example, a G chord on a guitar sounds different that an A because there are so many open strings in it (D-G-B). Doing this type of practice will also help you learn to hear intervals better. Once you get that down, you'll be able to play anything.

If it helps, I have good relative pitch. In other words, I can usually tell what note to start on, but sometimes I have to hunt around. Once I find that, everything else falls into place.

[Joshcop]

Take everything you have paid to be taught-- scales, barre-positons, key-hints, whatever-- then listen to Rush's Moving Pictures, Exit Stage Left, or pretty much any modern live Rush recording, following the basslines and bass expressions as best you can. Do it over and over until you realize that the "root notes" are an absolute minor detail to Geddy Lee, and that he *speaks* as much with the bass as he does with his voice. Youtube is great for this.

Then realize that according to a traditional music teacher's ways and applications, Geddy pretty much does it completely "wrong" in the manner a music teacher would teach & preach.

Last step--- stop paying to be taught by someone who will try to make you sound, categorically, like every other music student he's ever taught.

Teach *yourself* to play like you want to play, in the style *you* want to play, *how* you want to play it. You've been at it for "6-7 years now", so you should know all the basics you could need to know. The rest--- that is, the *style, the expression, the INDIVIDUALISM*--- is up to YOU. If it doesn't work, or doesn't sound right, or you just don't get it, or other people cringe when they hear it, find something else to do besides playing bass.

I'm not saying, "be Geddy." I, personally, will never be Geddy as far as my style or speed. Of course, very, very few people can even begin to claim they have true Geddy potential. But my style is *mine*, and is effective and dramatic. Several times I've had friends in different bands I have no association with ask me to listen to a demo or rough draft of a song and show them how I would do it. Most of these demos are typical root-note-with-the-kick-drum pieces, and are absolutely boring and predictable no matter how much guitar distortion or layering or vocal melodies (or screaming/growling) are in place. That is, they're boring until I sit down with my bass and *feel* what should be there instead........


The cold, hard reality is: Either you have it, or ya don't.






EDIT AND UPDATE- METALLICAFAN18--- Dude. Oh my god. I just re-read all of what you've said here on this post. If you're saying, as I think I'm reading correctly through the way you mis-typed it, that your bass guitar teacher is having you "learn" the piece of sheeeot "do wop/that thing" by Lauryn Hill, there is only one thing you can do:
SELL THE RICKENBACKER, CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME, buy some baggy jeans that hang off your butt and wear a baseball cap crooked and sideways.

Are you ***KIDDING ME*** that this is an assignment, after you've been taking lessons for so long?
I Youtube searched the "song" when I saw you had to learn it. What a JOKE. A bunch of morons who have sampled and looped a handful of stuff and passed it off to a bunch of drone fans who would call it music.
Dude, there's not even a constant bass playing through 50% of the piece!!! It's a pattern like this: a few notes behind sampled piano and synth, with the requisite heavy thud kick drum sample, then silence, then the same notes, then silence, then the same notes, etc etc etrc. The ONLY different "run" (hardly, at only 2.5 seconds) was around the 1:41 mark to 1:43 in the video I watched on Youtube. I gotta be honest... as a MUSICIAN, I had to stop watching and listening at around 2:15 because it's just a bunch of droning, no-talent loops and the typical black girl vibrato voice chorus over ebonics verses. Unbelieveably irritating... and hardly what I would call music. Then again, the crap that passes as music to an entire generation of youngsters and young adults, is all about marketing and marketability instead of musical talent.

Seriously... if this is your "lesson," either quit going to that teacher, or sell your guitars and buy a turntable.

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by Joshcop

Take everything you have paid to be taught-- scales, barre-positons, key-hints, whatever-- then listen to Rush's Moving Pictures, Exit Stage Left, or pretty much any modern live Rush recording, following the basslines and bass expressions as best you can. Do it over and over until you realize that the "root notes" are an absolute minor detail to Geddy Lee, and that he *speaks* as much with the bass as he does with his voice. Youtube is great for this.

Then realize that according to a traditional music teacher's ways and applications, Geddy pretty much does it completely "wrong" in the manner a music teacher would teach & preach.

Last step--- stop paying to be taught by someone who will try to make you sound, categorically, like every other music student he's ever taught.

Teach *yourself* to play like you want to play, in the style *you* want to play, *how* you want to play it. You've been at it for "6-7 years now", so you should know all the basics you could need to know. The rest--- that is, the *style, the expression, the INDIVIDUALISM*--- is up to YOU. If it doesn't work, or doesn't sound right, or you just don't get it, or other people cringe when they hear it, find something else to do besides playing bass.

I'm not saying, "be Geddy." I, personally, will never be Geddy as far as my style or speed. Of course, very, very few people can even begin to claim they have true Geddy potential. But my style is *mine*, and is effective and dramatic. Several times I've had friends in different bands I have no association with ask me to listen to a demo or rough draft of a song and show them how I would do it. Most of these demos are typical root-note-with-the-kick-drum pieces, and are absolutely boring and predictable no matter how much guitar distortion or layering or vocal melodies (or screaming/growling) are in place. That is, they're boring until I sit down with my bass and *feel* what should be there instead........


The cold, hard reality is: Either you have it, or ya don't.






EDIT AND UPDATE- METALLICAFAN18--- Dude. Oh my god. I just re-read all of what you've said here on this post. If you're saying, as I think I'm reading correctly through the way you mis-typed it, that your bass guitar teacher is having you "learn" the piece of sheeeot "do wop/that thing" by Lauryn Hill, there is only one thing you can do:
SELL THE RICKENBACKER, CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME, buy some baggy jeans that hang off your butt and wear a baseball cap crooked and sideways.

Are you ***KIDDING ME*** that this is an assignment, after you've been taking lessons for so long?
I Youtube searched the "song" when I saw you had to learn it. What a JOKE. A bunch of morons who have sampled and looped a handful of stuff and passed it off to a bunch of drone fans who would call it music.
Dude, there's not even a constant bass playing through 50% of the piece!!! It's a pattern like this: a few notes behind sampled piano and synth, with the requisite heavy thud kick drum sample, then silence, then the same notes, then silence, then the same notes, etc etc etrc. The ONLY different "run" (hardly, at only 2.5 seconds) was around the 1:41 mark to 1:43 in the video I watched on Youtube. I gotta be honest... as a MUSICIAN, I had to stop watching and listening at around 2:15 because it's just a bunch of droning, no-talent loops and the typical black girl vibrato voice chorus over ebonics verses. Unbelieveably irritating... and hardly what I would call music. Then again, the crap that passes as music to an entire generation of youngsters and young adults, is all about marketing and marketability instead of musical talent.

Seriously... if this is your "lesson," either quit going to that teacher, or sell your guitars and buy a turntable.

I see where you are coming from with your post.

I've been taking lessons for about 6 years. My teachers is a very talented and accomplished musician. Compared, to my tastes in music (Metal, rock, blues, and a little country), he prefers jazz, R&B and gospel. I think I could benefit from this though, because I am really well balanced as a rock musician, and I get most of the phone calls for bands needing a bassist. But when I play a jazz or R&B song, I get completely lost.

I agree that the Lauryn Hill song does not sound very good at all. It may help me with learning intervals though, which is what I need to do. One way or another.

he doesn't try to shape me either as a bassist. I play my own way, which is very aggressive for Rock and music like that, and he plays very jazzy styled, but he doesn't mind. He just wants me to learn music, more than bass. Which is what I think I need. I feel I am a great bassist, but when it comes to music as a whole, I seem to struggle.

That all make sense. haha

[SurferJoe46]

I want to say so much here - but I feel it would be misunderstood if you couldn't see my facial expression.

The loss of typing this and not being able to see your face and my reactions to you would be all wrong - but I'll try to not be inflammatory and obnoxious to you - if you try to understand what I am saying, please.

I think there's a great big hole in your musical education so far - and I wonder why the unspoken truth is that you haven't been given a real appreciation of hearing what you play as a passion and not an assignment.

Somehow your teacher(s) have all missed being able to inflame your ability to hear what you play and how you interact with music that you hear and may not have committed to memory or written on staffs.

In other words, I don't think they helped you think with your fingers and ears when you don't have a written staff of music in front of you. That's kinda sad, but not unrepairable.

Dependency on written material is all well-n-good if you are working for a conductor/composer and musical director who wants you to do it his way with no interpretation by you, (the real artist here).

I can't play that way. I need to feel and hear the music first, and the I look at the staff to see were the changes might be and places with special notes and stops, etc.

By now you should well be on your best legs to play anything that you hear and not need to have a written sheet in front of you, or the whole composition committed to memory, not allowing for any color and change-ups by you.

You should be able to hear that first note in a strange song and at least figure out a good groove for it almost instantly. In the very least, you should know the boxes you're gonna be in and mentally plot a good backbone to the music.

You should mentally have the key, the possible chord progressions and a feel for the rhythm instantly.

Jazz progressions might be a little confusing if you hit something cold and un-played (by you) but you should always have a zone to play in after you hear the first notes.

I hope you can get this all worked out, and my thoughts and concerns go to you in that vein.

Ya gotta feel the music and not rely on just scored material.

If I were you, I'd play a lot of 'called-out' music, or cold music that you don't know and you have to jump in and play a bass line.

That would be Music-101 to me - or bass under fire and I think that's a great teacher.

[metallicafan18]

Here is something I forgot to mention. I can't read music. My teacher had taught, be I have never had a case in which I used it, and I have forgotten it over the years.

I've always learned songs for my band by either just listening to it and learning it by ear. (we play mainly classic rock and country, so the songs are all very basic and easy to learn) or my guitar player will show me what he plays, and I will just come up with a bass groove around his player. I feel I am very good at getting into a groove and adding fills. I can easily jam and solo over any given key told to me. The only trouble is just listening to a recording and learning it if it is complicated.

Like Rush for example, I could never learn a Rush song by ear at this point, but I could easily to a Metallica song or something more basic.

but if I was in a jam session and the guys told me E minor, I could easily come up with a great bass part and really lock in with a drummer and groove all night long.

[Rudreax]

I don't know how your teacher teacher teaches, but perhaps he is simply trying to give you a grounding music in general? That way it becomes easier to become good any particular style and adapt well.

Joshcop, I many have gotten this wrong but are you trying to say that going to a music teacher kills creativity and individuality?

[metallicafan18]

Originally Posted by Rudreax

I don't know how your teacher teacher teaches, but perhaps he is simply trying to give you a grounding music in general? That way it becomes easier to become good any particular style and adapt well.

Joshcop, I many have gotten this wrong but are you trying to say that going to a music teacher kills creativity and individuality?

That is exactly what he is trying to get me to do. Being able to adapt to any situation on music. He himself is a bassist, but I have learned "bass" and now we are really getting into the music aspect of it as a whole, not just bass.

[dalconthenovice]

what i did was a i played a game with my music teacher, he got on the piano, and we were gonna play a game called "guess the note" very self explanatory, i knew how to play piano so he blindfolded me, and even better, he made me use my fretless, and he would play a note and i would guess it by using my bass note, when i got it i was supposed to say outloud what note it was, it took for fricken EVER maybe about like a month of doing this before anything started to make sense, but i was able to do it very thoroughly after a period of time, then we went on to INTERVAL TRAINING and did it with random two different notes, and i was to guess how many half-steps/whole-steps they were apart from one another and name the notes, that TOO too for fricken ever, from there we went on to chords, then scales, then onto MELODIES this entire process took like about 6 months but it paid off and my ear is pretty strong now

by the way, i was born with only one ear, so i'm deaf in the 'other' ear, if i can do it you can, don't give up

[Crazyeelboy]

Metallicafan18 - I'm not going to comment on your lessons - you like your teacher and that's groovy. Regarding your lesson for this week - here's a hint - the song repeats part of a very standard chord progression used in lots and lots of songs (it is not an esoteric jazz thing). Ask your teacher to start working on chord progressions - that will make a lot of this a lot easier.

[JimmyM]

get back with the learning to read music, too. you really don't understand how valuable it is for ear training until you get it down.