Diatonic Chords...zahhh???

[homercaholic]

Hey All, im trying to learn on my own with the help of libsters lesson site and Im at the lesson on the Diatonic Chords and "bus stops". This lesson is confusing the hell out of me, basically im finding it hard to understand really what a Bus Stop is and what a Diatonic Chord is. The whole lesson really has me flustered, is there anyone who could simplify it a bit? Once I get the basics of this down im sure I could work through the rest. Heres the link to the site.

http://www.thelibster.com/bass/ (to get to the lesson im at go at the top and select lessons/chord theory/bus stops and major chords)

[Eli M.]

I think the term "bus stop" is a bit silly because it's giving an additional name to something that already has a name. As far as I can tell in that lesson, "bus stops" ARE "diatonic chords".

Diatonic means using only the notes in the scale or key. For example, in the key of C Major, a D minor chord is diatonic (D-F-A) while a D Major chord isn't, because it contains an F# which is "not in the key" of C.

Notice I put that in quotes. While strict diatonicism and rules are a useful beginner's learning concept, it all goes out the window when you start to know what you're doing. You might say a note or chord "not in the key", but what you really mean is that it's not diatonic.

EDIT: I probably just made it a lot more confusing...

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

Hey All, im trying to learn on my own with the help of libsters lesson site and Im at the lesson on the Diatonic Chords and "bus stops". This lesson is confusing the hell out of me, basically im finding it hard to understand really what a Bus Stop is and what a Diatonic Chord is. The whole lesson really has me flustered, is there anyone who could simplify it a bit? Once I get the basics of this down im sure I could work through the rest. Heres the link to the site.

http://www.thelibster.com/bass/ (to get to the lesson im at go at the top and select lessons/chord theory/bus stops and major chords)

This lesson offers too much info at once. That is why you're probably getting a little confused. This image has the information that you need to digest to understand "Diatonic chords".



Notice how each chord is built off each note of the scale?
Also notice that the chords are spelled using every other note in the scale?

What makes these chords diatonic?
They are created using the pitches from the given scale.

I, IV, V are "major chords" (notice the use of upper case for MAJOR?)
ii, iii, vi are "minor chords" (notice the use of lower case for minor?)
vii is "diminished"

Go and play them on a keyboard and you'll hear their quality.

Keep it simple.
Joe

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

Hey All, im trying to learn on my own with the help of libsters lesson site and Im at the lesson on the Diatonic Chords and "bus stops". This lesson is confusing the hell out of me, basically im finding it hard to understand really what a Bus Stop is and what a Diatonic Chord is.

A "bus stop" is a term invented by the guy who wrote that website. He's trying to make the concept easier to understand, but I wouldn't worry about it. Call them "degrees" and other musicians will know what you're talking about.

We call the scales that western music is largely built from "diatonic". A major scale is a diatonic scale. A minor scale is diatonic. What he's calling "diatonic chords" are chords that are built from diatonic scales. Just call them "chords"

Take a C major scale:

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

Let's put them on the staff and give them each a number (which we'll put in roman numerals)



(Notice that some of the numerals are in upper case, some in lower case? The reason for this will become apparent...)

We usually build chords from "triads". We do this by taking a note which we call the "root", going up two notes to get the third, and another two notes to get the fifth.

Starting with the thirds:



If you find the notes C and E on your bass, you find that they're four frets apart. If you find D and F, they're three frets apart... They're both "thirds" but C to E is a "major third" and D to F is a "minor third".

If we do this for all scale degrees in C major, we find:

I: C, E = root, major third
ii: D, F = root, minor third
iii: E, G = root, minor third
IV: F, A = root, major third
V: G, B = root, major third
vi: A, C = root, minor third
vii: B, D = root, minor third

(notice how the upper case roman numerals correspond to the major thirds and the lower case ones correspond to minor thirds?)

Adding the fifths on top:



If you find the notes C and G, you'll find they're seven frets apart. D and A are also seven frets apart, as are all the other fifths apart from B to F, which is six frets. A seven fret gap is called a "perfect fifth" and a six fret gap is called a "diminished fifth".

So chords built from the major scale are built from triads that consist of a root, a third (which may be major or minor) and a fifth (which may be perfect or diminished). The types of thirds and fifths present determine whether the overall chord is major, minor or diminished:

I: C, E, G = root, major third, perfect fifth = major triad. Chord name = C
ii: D, F, A = root, minor third, perfect fifth = minor triad. Chord name = Dm
iii: E, G, B = root, minor third, perfect fifth = minor triad. Chord name = Em
IV: F, A, C = root, major third, perfect fifth = major triad. Chord name = F
V: G, B, D = root, major third, perfect fifth = major triad. Chord name = G
vi: A, C, E = root, minor third, perfect fifth = minor triad. Chord name = Am
vii: B, D, F = root, minor third, diminished fifth = diminished triad. Chord name = Bdim

[homercaholic]

You pretty much explained that perfectly dlloyd, thanks a lot, cleared up everything! Now on to the next part that makes me say ..zahhh?

[Bassist4Life]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

You pretty much explained that perfectly dlloyd, thanks a lot, cleared up everything! Now on to the next part that makes me say ..zahhh?

Just curious. What is "zahhh"?

Joe

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

You pretty much explained that perfectly dlloyd, thanks a lot, cleared up everything! Now on to the next part that makes me say ..zahhh?

Looking at that lesson again, I'd suggest you forget about it and buy a book.

His G major arpeggio exercise is nonsense. He gets through the first bar okay. In the second bar (Am), while the SN is fine, his tab gives the fingering for an A major triad. In the third bar, again the SN is okay for Bm, but the tab gives the fingering for Bdim. The next three bars are okay, but the seventh bar, F#dim, has the fingering for an F major triad.

On the way back down he's not too bad, but his F#dim is now F#sus2b5 if you go by the tab.

The bit about primary and secondary triads is unnecessary and he incorrectly shows an F major as both the IV and V in C major.

The progressions are fine to practice the chord tones. The last bit, where he touches on the V-I cadence is a bit out of place in this lesson, and he doesn't appear to understand it in any case.

[homercaholic]

I just use zahhh as the noise I make when im confused, its like saying "what the heck is he talking about?" but in nicer terms

And I did pick up a book, "The Adult approach to Beginner Bass" by David Overthrow, so Im going to be using that.