Different tonal center for soloing, is it "wrong"?

[jamisonsalamand]

I was going over Take Five with my instructor, as my band will be playing it and I was looking for ways to keep it interesting beyond the simple repeated bass line. There aren't many, but we ended up looking at soloing over those chords and ideas to do. He ended up giving me the idea of using Bb as the tonal center, so I would be soloing in Bb Phrygian instead of emphasizing Eb minor(the key that it's in).

I was wondering how modal solos like that, or choosing any other tonal center and playing diatonically in a different mode, would be received at a Berklee audition. I'm not auditioning there for a while, and don't need to worry immediately(I would use a more harmonically complex piece than Take Five anyway). I just get the impression that there is in fact a right and wrong way to play music concerning the staff at Berklee. Would they consider soloing like that a more advanced idea and take more interest in me? Because to me, it sounded so cool that I think I'm gonna be using the idea a LOT more.

[narud]

Originally Posted by jamisonsalamand

I was going over Take Five with my instructor, as my band will be playing it and I was looking for ways to keep it interesting beyond the simple repeated bass line. There aren't many, but we ended up looking at soloing over those chords and ideas to do. He ended up giving me the idea of using Bb as the tonal center, so I would be soloing in Bb Phrygian instead of emphasizing Eb minor(the key that it's in).

I was wondering how modal solos like that, or choosing any other tonal center and playing diatonically in a different mode, would be received at a Berklee audition. I'm not auditioning there for a while, and don't need to worry immediately(I would use a more harmonically complex piece than Take Five anyway). I just get the impression that there is in fact a right and wrong way to play music concerning the staff at Berklee. Would they consider soloing like that a more advanced idea and take more interest in me? Because to me, it sounded so cool that I think I'm gonna be using the idea a LOT more.

youre playing the same notes in the key. youre not doing anything advanced so they wont be taking more interest.

[Chris K]

Using different tonal centers is a widespread practice in both jazz and classical music, so generaly speaking, it's OK. The danger is that if it becomes a cheap trick, it will sound like nothing more.

You will have noticed that Bb Phrygian (Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb) and Eb (natural) minor (Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb) have the same notes, so you might consider your so-called Bb-Phrygian solo to be very close to a Eb natural minor solo where you move around the 5th of the scale, which is (with al due respect) nothing special.

My advice would be to expand your experiments to using other scales with other tonal centers as well. I would first check out scales that share both the 3rd and 7th of the original scale (as in many cases 3rd and 7th define the character of the scale), in this case Gb and Db (but not Gb major, Ab Dorian, Bb Phrygian etc. because they would change nothing). Once you found a few of those, don't stick to one of 'm, but move around to retain a feeling of spontaneity.

Good luck.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by narud

youre playing the same notes in the key. youre not doing anything advanced so they wont be taking more interest.

This. It sounds impressive, but in practice it's nothing special at all. Keep at it, though. You're about to get into some interesting things soon

[BananaKing]

I would recommend, on a personal level, playing a mix of Eb aeolian, blues and dorian. Then, when you build into lines with a bit more chromaticism, you might be able to use diminished runs with bluesy slides and Harmonic minor modes. I'm just thinking that it would make you sound more like you're approaching the material from a paul desmond/cannonball adderley direction (bluesier as well).

Whatever you do, play melodically and with nice phrasing. I tend to hold my breath and hum the notes when I solo. When i lose my air, I stop playing to make my phrases more "song like".

[JimmyM]

I would just play what you feel when you're soloing, and not worry so much about the scale. Playing in Bbm over the Ebm is cool, but I wouldn't stick to a mode. I find modes sound more like academic exercises when you solo. Bb Phrygian would work, but so would some chromatic runs using Bbm as your tonal guide, and it would be more interesting IMHO.

[Orangeclawhamme]

I read tht the bass solo in "My Generation" by the Who is G minor pentatonic over A. I presumed that this meant that the song is in the key of A. Does this have anything to do with this discussion?

[Russell L]

It's ok to do what you're saying, but up to you to make it interesting. I find that using a different tonal center causes me to accent different notes that I otherwise wouldn't have. That in itself gives a different feel, but after awhile it can get old---and the listener will pick up on your secret eventually, so you can't do it for long.