Distinguishing between chord inversions

dexter3d · #1 03-08-2009, 03:03 PM

I'm gonna have solfege exam soon, and this is the part where I need to improve a lot.. What method do you use to tell which chord inversion do you hear? Let's limit it to major/minor chords.

onlyclave · #2 03-08-2009, 03:35 PM

Just listen for the lowest pitch and that will tell you if it's a 5/3, 6 or 6/4.

Jake of Bass · #3 03-08-2009, 04:52 PM

This page explains it well:

http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id47_en.html

dexter3d · #4 03-08-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake of Bass

This page explains it well:

http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id47_en.html

I was talking about hearing. But thanks.

onlyclave · #5 03-08-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dexter3d

I was talking about hearing. But thanks.

Like I said previously, listen for the lowest pitch. I did two years of those classes and got straight A's. The bass note indicates the inversion.

Ed Fuqua · #6 03-09-2009, 10:06 AM

You gotta keep practicing hearing them and singing them until it makes the same kind of sense that a STOP sign does when you're driving - you don't have to count the sides to see if it has six or 8, you don't have to figure out what color it's painted and you don't have to spell out what the word printed on it is. You just see the sign and stop. Ultimately, you have to hear that it's a major chord and that the bottom note is the third of the chord (or whatever).

It's the P word...

Myke Myke · #7 03-09-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

You gotta keep practicing hearing them and singing them until it makes the same kind of sense that a STOP sign does when you're driving - you don't have to count the sides to see if it has six or 8, you don't have to figure out what color it's painted and you don't have to spell out what the word printed on it is. You just see the sign and stop. Ultimately, you have to hear that it's a major chord and that the bottom note is the third of the chord (or whatever).

It's the P word...

+1

Ed Fuqua · #8 03-09-2009, 01:06 PM

DEX - how do you practice this stuff?

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #9 03-09-2009, 01:42 PM

Here's another way to do it: If you can recognize the fundamental (root) of the chord regardless of its position (note that "root" and "bass" aren't necessarily the same), you can identify the inversion through the interval between the root and the soprano (since most of the times the soprano is the easiest pitch to hear):

- A perfect fifth between root and soprano: Root position (root is on bottom).
- An unison or octave (depending on how you sing it) between root and soprano: First inversion (root is on top).
- A third between root and soprano: Second inversion (root is in the middle position).

HaVIC5 · #10 03-09-2009, 03:10 PM

There are two kinds of listening quizzes you can have for this sort of thing. You can have open position chords, which are chords likely in four parts with some sort of doubling that cover more than an octave, and close position chords, which are likely three-note chords and are in less than an octave. The former is relatively easy - listen for the bass note. In my ear, each has a certain flavor or character - root position is the most stable, first inversion is less stable and vaguely "minorish" (majorish if its a minor chord or diminished chord), and second inversion is the most unstable because of the interval of the fourth (augmented fourth or perfect).

That latter version is harder, and its usually a lot more difficult to distinguished the bass note. To my ear, anyway, its easier to distinguished the MELODY notes, or the top note of the voicing. That way, you can thing of root position as the fifth in the melody, first inversion as the root in the melody and second inversion as the third in the melody.

dexter3d · #11 03-11-2009, 07:29 PM

Thanks for your ideas!
I practice inversions with Earmaster (it plays the chord and you need to click the right answer), but the problem is that in the exam the chords will be played throughout several octaves in the confusing way, and earmaster just plays 3 nearest notes.

The method which works 95% for me is this (in case of minor/major chords, played as 3 nearest notes):
I don't know why but I always 'naturally' hear the highest note of the chord, thus I proceed from there.
- I quickly try to imagine down a 4th. If it 'clicks' - that's it, it's 1st inversion.
- If it's root position, I can easily imagine a triad down from that note.
- For me 2nd inversion just wants to resolve through two other chords, its like the 3rd last chord of some of classical pieces.

On the other hand, I was taught to distinguish those chords by stability/unstability of bass note/upper structure. But somehow it doesn't work for me. For me, for instance, 1st inversion sometimes seems stable.

I know that if I heard the bass note of the chord, it would be easier, but sometimes I just don't get it, especially if everything is played high.

Ed Fuqua · #12 03-12-2009, 01:06 PM

You should get a piano/keyboard and start working on singing these as well. There's an approach I use with my teacher that I've described on another thread here, if yer innersted...

Jim Carr · #13 03-12-2009, 01:29 PM

As bassists, we are very concerned with hearing roots quickly, and hearing where they go next. All obvious. However, this often means we tend only to hear root and quality, and then just ignore the rest.

I have seen this with ear training students who are bass players more than once.

My prescription is pretty simple, but takes time. Spend time at the keyboard. Study piano, playing Chorales/Hymns, practice exercises from keyboard harmony/figured bass books, and sing in a chorus.

If your exam is in a few days or weeks, this won't help much, but it will give you the real deal skills over time. Good luck, and BTW, use the software a lot and go to the keyboard and play inversions of triads and sevenths in different keys, doublings, ranges, etc. Do these a lot. It will help a bit in the short term. Yeah, the P word.

dexter3d · #14 03-27-2009, 11:41 AM

Any suggestions for a good program to practice open voicing inversions? Earmaster just plays closest triads..

Ed Fuqua · #15 03-27-2009, 01:58 PM

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...52#post5512252

dexter3d · #16 03-27-2009, 03:19 PM

Thanks Ed, looks like a good method.

Agilulfo · #17 03-31-2009, 12:26 PM

Practice identifying the root regardless of the inversion. Once you can do that, listen for the lowest note and then transpose it, in your head or by singing it, above the root so that you can hear the interval in relation to the root.

dexter3d · #18 04-20-2009, 12:03 PM

Exactly - as simple as that. You need to get the root, there's no other way. Because playing different notes in soprano + omitting notes can make the same inversion sound very different. Plus, if you listen to a sequence of inversions, like in the exam, the previous one can create aural illusions and thus prevent from hearing what the next one really is. Only the root identification can be 100% method.
I found the relative pitch ear training method by David Lucas Burge very helpful. Many useful drills, I am improving really fast.