Do these books that teach you a band's songs actually teach anything?

[Fassa Albrecht]

OK, I will confess straightaway that I do own several of these books, and that one of these taught me my first bass song.

But my impression is that whilst they teach you how to play a certain group of a band's songs, they don't actually teach anything of how the bassline works or anything of the technique.

Indeed the only book that I've seen actually explain the song is my Jaco solos book, which goes into some detail on the subject.

So, do these 'play band X's songs' books actually teach anyone anything?

[smithal3]

yes and no (mostly no).

I have a pretty strong music theory background and I can analyze how the song goes and actually learn a few things about it because I know how to study it. But without my previous theory based background (I played piano first) I would not have ever known what to do with the music.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by smithal3

yes and no (mostly no).

I have a pretty strong music theory background and I can analyze how the song goes and actually learn a few things about it because I know how to study it. But without my previous theory based background (I played piano first) I would not have ever known what to do with the music.

This is where I had the issues: I learnt my first bass from one of these books, and not from a bass instruction book, and so I learnt the basslines without any theory knowledge. I ended up learning nothing....I got a big shock when I joined my first band.

[Rudreax]

Unless they explain it to you in the book, no. The only way you'd learn something is if you already have an understanding of how the song works (i.e. theory) and you know how to apply it to the song. Of course, if the song is written in standard notation, you are at least learning to read standard notation (assuming that you're using that and not tab). Besides that, you might get a couple licks from the song - and the song in general - and that's about it.

[rcarraher]

Originally Posted by smithal3

yes and no (mostly no).

I have a pretty strong music theory background and I can analyze how the song goes and actually learn a few things about it because I know how to study it. But without my previous theory based background (I played piano first) I would not have ever known what to do with the music.

Most, but admittedly not all of my theory is self taught, but I am able to analysis a good "The Complete Band X" song books. Not many, because not many give you enough. How are you going to analysis say the Stones from a Stones Bass Tab book? One book that really turned me one and allowed me to go into any indepth study of a groups music was The Beatles Complete Scores. Its got evey guitar, the bass and even drums in standard notation as well as tab. If you have a mind for music and you don't just buy these books hoping to nail Day Tripper then you will start to see some of the beauty behind what they did and how they did it. You'll also start to learn why it works and use that in other compositions.

[Kevinmach]

I would say for the most part, no.

But then again, that's not really why I'd buy a book like that in the first place.

I've paid for Rush transcriptions/books because I am not interested in sitting in front of a phase trainer just to hear what is being played. Bass tones can be hard hard to discern, and it saves time.

I frequently use Guitar Pro and download tabs for free, which is a great program that I highly recommend if you are not familiar with it. However, it's not really geared around bass- and thus, a lot of the bass lines are not accurate (for that matter, neither are a lot of guitar parts) so they are lacking in that respect. (some of them are dead on though)

While I don't need a bass transcription to be EXACT (who knows even if the supposedly official ones are in fact 100% right), I don't want to waste time learning a really challenging song like YYZ, only to find out that it's really not even close.

[Drifta]

Originally Posted by Kevinmach

I would say for the most part, no.

But then again, that's not really why I'd buy a book like that in the first place.

I've paid for Rush transcriptions/books because I am not interested in sitting in front of a phase trainer just to hear what is being played. Bass tones can be hard hard to discern, and it saves time.

I frequently use Guitar Pro and download tabs for free, which is a great program that I highly recommend if you are not familiar with it. However, it's not really geared around bass- and thus, a lot of the bass lines are not accurate (for that matter, neither are a lot of guitar parts) so they are lacking in that respect. (some of them are dead on though)

While I don't need a bass transcription to be EXACT (who knows even if the supposedly official ones are in fact 100% right), I don't want to waste time learning a really challenging song like YYZ, only to find out that it's really not even close.

excuse my ignorance for not knowing the song YYZ, but how could it be a waste of time to sit and learn ANYTHING?, its only not even close because you giving up so easily.

just think if you spent a few hours on that song and got it all figured out how much of a better player you'd be than if u just clicked the guitar pro shortcut and got it down in 10 min. the more you try the easier it gets, the easier it is to hear bass part

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

OK, I will confess straightaway that I do own several of these books, and that one of these taught me my first bass song.

But my impression is that whilst they teach you how to play a certain group of a band's songs, they don't actually teach anything of how the bassline works or anything of the technique.

Indeed the only book that I've seen actually explain the song is my Jaco solos book, which goes into some detail on the subject.

So, do these 'play band X's songs' books actually teach anyone anything?

It can teach you alot if you're open to it. These books have the chords, the melody and the bass part which means you could learn all the parts of the song which would at the very least give you an understanding of how your bass part intersects with the chords the guitar and/or keyboard plays and with the melody. There's still gold to be discovered in the books.

[Bruce Lindfield]

I learned a huge amount from "Led Zeppelin complete" - there was a whole musical education in there!

But I can see how some bands have nothing to teach you, really....

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

It can teach you alot if you're open to it. These books have the chords, the melody and the bass part which means you could learn all the parts of the song which would at the very least give you an understanding of how your bass part intersects with the chords the guitar and/or keyboard plays and with the melody. There's still gold to be discovered in the books.

Most of them aren't written with this in mind- the Muse one I use is tab for most songs, and only two songs are given in standard notation or even give the chord names. Tab isn't designed to let people study the theory, they're so you can learn the song quickly.

[Kevinmach]

excuse my ignorance for not knowing the song YYZ, but how could it be a waste of time to sit and learn ANYTHING?, its only not even close because you giving up so easily.

YYZ is an instrumental from the band Rush. Pretty difficult for someone of my skill level.

And maybe I wasnt clear in my point. I mean if the free transcription I download isn't correct- I will invest a lot of time learning to play something that is pretty hard, that maybe isn't accurate.

In that case, I'd rather just pay for a book of several songs that I want to learn, and THEN put forth the effort.

To be honest though- back to the original question- the one book I am thinking of right now is pretty much just bass transcription and lyrics. You will become a better player learning the difficult material, and you will usually have to incorporate some new techniques to play it-but I can't say as though they ever taught me anything beyond that.

As far as transcribing them and listening yourself to figure out what's being played? No, I don't believe you get much out of that. I was playing guitar and piano for years before any of this software was around, and a lot of songs I did have to learn without the aid of a phase trainer or book- and I definitely do not believe I gained anything from it, especially relative to the time it would take. I hope your right and all those hours spent did teach me something- but I really can't see it if it did.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Kevinmach

As far as transcribing them and listening yourself to figure out what's being played? No, I don't believe you get much out of that.

Actually, this is one of the more useful things you can learn to do. It helps you develop your ear and increases your comfort level with writing what you hear. Assuming I'm understanding what you're describing.

[Kevinmach]

Rich-

You probably understood me correctly. Perhaps I *did* gain something from it when I did it years ago and just didn't realize it. But my recollection is that of sitting in front of a tape deck or cd and just rewinding it over and over again, sometimes for long periods for parts that were fast or difficult to hear, deep in the mix. I guess the impression would be that the gain seems small relative to the time invested- I probably would have been better off working on other aspects of my playing, even if there was a benefit.

Now that I'm an adult, I am at a period in my life where time is a lot more precious-my main focus is on doing what's enjoyable, which is the satisfaction of playing something challenging that I couldn't play before. For guys that have a ton of time or that bass is their life or job, it could arguably be a different story.

[derekd]

Imo, one of the most useful things you can ever do is learn songs. If there is a chord notation, symbol, or grid above the staff, then you can see what kind of line the player put under that chord.

By following the progression, you can see how the player linked all those chords with his lines. Pretty important stuff imo. You can also gleen lots of cool fills and licks this way.

Besides, what's the point of learning to play if you aren't working on songs?

[xzzy]

Transcription books are useful as a basis of influence.. can teach you a popular phrase which you might later modify for use in one of your own songs. Or give insight into how an artist you admire arranges his songs.

You have to study it though. Merely learning the notes and perfecting the song won't teach you anything but how to play that song. To get knowledge that you can apply to other music, you have to analyze the notes, the rhythm, and the progressions.

Short of walking up to the artist and asking how they wrote their top ten song, it's the only way for you to figure out how they did it.

[Fassa Albrecht]

Originally Posted by xzzy

Transcription books are useful as a basis of influence.. can teach you a popular phrase which you might later modify for use in one of your own songs. Or give insight into how an artist you admire arranges his songs.

You have to study it though. Merely learning the notes and perfecting the song won't teach you anything but how to play that song. To get knowledge that you can apply to other music, you have to analyze the notes, the rhythm, and the progressions.

Short of walking up to the artist and asking how they wrote their top ten song, it's the only way for you to figure out how they did it.

Which is fine and good IF you're a theory and technique nut.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

Which is fine and good IF you're a theory and technique nut.

One doesn't have to be a nut, just serious about learning and knowing. But everyone is different and wants different things and works hard or not depending on what it is they want and how bad they want it.

[Jonny B]

They teach you how to play the songs. Isn't that why you buy them? To learn the songs?

If you want to learn theory, buy a book about it, or take lessons.

Jeez.

[Drifta]

Originally Posted by Kevinmach

YYZ is an instrumental from the band Rush. Pretty difficult for someone of my skill level.

And maybe I wasnt clear in my point. I mean if the free transcription I download isn't correct- I will invest a lot of time learning to play something that is pretty hard, that maybe isn't accurate.

In that case, I'd rather just pay for a book of several songs that I want to learn, and THEN put forth the effort.

To be honest though- back to the original question- the one book I am thinking of right now is pretty much just bass transcription and lyrics. You will become a better player learning the difficult material, and you will usually have to incorporate some new techniques to play it-but I can't say as though they ever taught me anything beyond that.

As far as transcribing them and listening yourself to figure out what's being played? No, I don't believe you get much out of that. I was playing guitar and piano for years before any of this software was around, and a lot of songs I did have to learn without the aid of a phase trainer or book- and I definitely do not believe I gained anything from it, especially relative to the time it would take. I hope your right and all those hours spent did teach me something- but I really can't see it if it did.

[xzzy]

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

Which is fine and good IF you're a theory and technique nut.

Well I'm glad you can churn out hit singles, but the rest of us have to work at it.

Music is a cultural endeavor, and in order to participate in it, you have to study what other musicians have done or are doing. Reading transcriptions is one way (of many) to do that, which means song books are in fact useful.