Do You "Count" in your head while playing?

98dvl · #1 10-17-2007, 04:32 PM

The drummer in our band is constantly complaining that my guitar player and myself do not "count" the rhythms we are playing.

While I understand where he's coming from, and realize the importance of knowing exactly what to play, I find it difficult to think to myself "one --- uh - two -- and --- uh ------four --- uh" (or whatever the particular rhythm is) while I'm playing.

I'm just wondering what others do... do you "count" every rhythm in your head as your playing? Or do you "feel" the rhythm.

I would think that most feel the rhythm, maybe after learning to count the rhythm.

And, I'm sure my drummer has a point... Sometimes, I may play the wrong rhythm... but to me, it "feels" right.

jsingles · #2 10-17-2007, 04:41 PM

no i most certainly do not... but I guess it depends on your ear. If the drummer has complaints then maybe it should be addressed, but otherwise just do whatever works

cnltb · #3 10-17-2007, 04:44 PM

When I first started , in the very beginning, I counted, and people saw or heard it.
Now they don't.

Matthew Bryson · #4 10-17-2007, 04:47 PM

A little of both.

I count and tap my foot a lot more when I'm playing with a good drummer.

A really basic drummer will play 1,2,3,4 for the whole song, so you don't need to count 1,2,3,4, through the whole song.

A better drummer might launch into a funky syncopated drum fill a bar and a half before the change and you'd damn sure better be able to keep playing your part when the drummer is not spoon feeding you the count.

Do you and your guitar player start messing up the rhythm if the drummer tries to play a different rhythm? If that is how he knows your not counting, you might be guilty as charged.

You should at least be able to count. Do you tap your foot when you play? I tap my foot to keep track of the count when playing more difficult passages.

bakeronbass · #5 10-17-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Bryson

A little of both.

I count and tap my foot a lot more when I'm playing with a good drummer.

I really basic drummer will play 1,2,3,4 for the whole song, so you don't need to count 1,2,3,4, through the whole song.

A better drummer might launch into a funky syncopated drum fill a bar and a half before the change and you'd damn sure better be able to keep playing your part when the drummer is not spoon feeding you the count.

Do you and your guitar player start messing up the rhythm if the drummer tries to play a different rhythm? If that is how he knows your not counting, you might be guilty as charged.

You should at least be able to count. Do you tap your foot when you play? I tap my foot to keep track of the count when playing more difficult passages.

Excellent advice

T-MOST · #6 10-17-2007, 04:54 PM

Most times I incorporate a slight head bob or the "no" head jesture in time with a very light foot tap. A hard foot stomp is for real noobs or people who just like doing that.

Jazzerbone · #7 10-17-2007, 04:55 PM

Yes I do. I'm also a classically trained musician. I've been doing it my whole life. It takes time to be able to do that. Doesn't happen immedeately.

First of all, if your drummer is bringing it up, then there is most likely a problem.

Being able to count and play your rhythms allows you to be much more precise, and in the end when everyone is that precise, things are much tighter. I think any kind of tool a musician can master that will help their playing should be encouraged. You can't hurt anything by being able to use that kind of coordination except it might slow you down a little when it comes to harder stuff for a little while.

I wouldn't say it's necessary to be able to count and play at the same time to be precise, but it sure is helpful. If things aren't coming out clean right now, then you guys need to work on being able to play those rhythms tighter as a group and counting is a good tool to be able to do that. Not the only way, but it works.

PocketGroove82 · #8 10-17-2007, 04:57 PM

If I didn't count the 5 bar rest, followed by an 8 bar rest, then 3 bar rest in 3/4 time, I wouldn't know when to come in! Granted, I'm talking about my work with orchestras and how you can't always rely on "looking at the tubas".

When I'm playing in a combo, be it jazz, rock..etc..etc..., I can't just zone out until I really have the song/form under my fingers, so I would say, Yes. I do count. But, once a song gets so ingrained that it's not a stretch at all, then it's more a matter of listening and interacting with the musicians I'm playing with.

As far as rhythms, us bass players are typically confronted with the same triplet, 8th, and 16th note(...or tied whole notes!) rhythms every time we play. Once you learn the typical stuff, then tapping out or counting every rhythm is unnecessary.

bakeronbass · #9 10-17-2007, 05:00 PM

Ow yeah I dont count every note when I'am in 4/4 but I do count the passages of the song. So when its in seven of even 3/4 I'll be counting. I think every member should be able to play there individual part regardless of whats going on with the other guy.

Smallmouth_Bass · #10 10-17-2007, 05:19 PM

It really depends on the song and the situation. If I learn a song that is more complex and syncopated I often think about what the rhythm count is and I have that going internally in my head, not my foot or out loud.

Most of the time you can tell where you are within a measure by the drum beat (2 and 4 snare in 4/4 most of the time). Other times, you'll need to know where you start on a pick-up to start the song. They don't always start on one and you all need to be tight on stuff like that.

Most of the time it comes naturally, but if it doesn't, I am able to count and understand rhythms so that I can get it.

A good example that comes to mind is the intro part of Stevie Ray Vaughan's Couldn't Stand the Weather.

funkydanbass · #11 10-17-2007, 05:22 PM

Count to learn it properly until you can feel it. I most certainly do not count out a groove when performing, but I've generally done the prep and own it.

TrevorOfDoom · #12 10-17-2007, 05:23 PM

in an interview with Tony Levin, he said that he always counts in 16th when playing. i started doing it, and i play a hell of a lot more notes now. yes i know it's not about how many you can play, but what notes you play and when, but i'm in an overplaying swing. i'm normally more reserved, sparse, minimalist.

that said, yes, i count. it's a helpful thing.

brake · #13 10-17-2007, 09:51 PM

If you can't count while playing you've got some problems.

ras1983 · #14 10-17-2007, 10:43 PM

Usually not, i'm more of a feel player. I make sure i never lose where the 1 is for most types of music -some latin music requires i keep track of the 4.

Snarf · #15 10-17-2007, 11:19 PM

I can't count. It screws me up. I won't even count when I'm reading Schoenberg. Counting = bad news for me.

DocBop · #16 10-17-2007, 11:34 PM

I will count (1,2,3,4) as part of sightreading practice. Can be tricky counting just down beats while readng/playing syncopated stuff. When playing sometimes I'll counts long rests. I learned from precussionists to vocalize rests and will do that if a weird passage with lots of rests.

MysticMichael · #17 10-17-2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brake

If you can't count while playing you've got some problems.

+1

Counting is fundamental - like being able to play in tune. Or to play in key. Or to play in tempo. And it doesn't necessarily mean having to tap your foot, or to grunt rhythmically...or to make any other sort of overt movement or noise. It just means to keep track of time, so that you know where you are - at all times.

Guys, if you're playing purely by "feel", or if you're depending on cues from any other player(s) to guide you, then to that same extent you are dependent upon them to keep you in the right place. Eventually you're going to screw up - and it could be major.

It's kind of like driving a car while wearing a blindfold - and having to navigate by sense of hearing & smell...

MM

NorCal Dog · #18 10-18-2007, 12:32 AM

hell yes I count, & whats really crazy is i've got a guitar player that actually counts to 5 on a 4/4 song,, & he can't understand why he keeps screwing things up

excellent question here,, but truthfully i'm quite surprised that alot of bass players don't

Jazz Ad · #19 10-18-2007, 12:50 AM

I sure do, at least for practice.
Counting is key to good placement.
Usually after a while you get used to the structure and timing of the song and it isn't necessary anymore.
During improvisation, especially in jazz I don't see how you can get away without counting, unless you rely on luck.

TheRam · #20 10-18-2007, 01:08 AM

I don't count while I play. I find it difficult to focus on reading music, being sensitive to the band's on stage dynamics and keeping time while counting in my head.

I think you should have a relatively good sense of rhythm to play bass well. I usually just make sure I lock in well with the drummer and I'm good to go.

I agree that sometimes guitarists are overly ambitious with their sense of timing.