does the bass always need to be on the kick drum

mpop101 · #1 01-30-2007, 10:16 AM

how close to the what the drummer is playing do you really need to be?

Scottgun · #2 01-30-2007, 10:33 AM

Completely depends on the music. Certainly hanging with the kick drum is a good place to start, but it is hardly dogmatic.

Scott

stedtale · #3 01-30-2007, 10:42 AM

My 2¢

It certainly is not dogmatic. No matter what you play you should to be locked in with the drummer. Locking in with the kick is a great place to start. Whenever I play with a new drummer I always try to start by locking onto his/her kick bass groove pattern, then explore from there. The drummer and bassist should complement each other, whether or not they are playing the exact same pattern, etc.

Throckmorten · #4 01-30-2007, 11:48 AM

The simple answer is, No.
Start listening, you won't need to ask.

BetterBottomEnd · #5 01-30-2007, 11:55 AM

It's never wrong to play with the kick so if you're lost or too busy trying to transpose on the fly or something like that stick with the kick and you'll get through. Yes you should be locked in with a drummer but that doesn't mean you have to sit on top of the kick.

dougjwray · #6 01-30-2007, 12:17 PM

Some clarification: I think some people are trying to say that being "locked in" with the kick drum can mean being "in synch" with it (playing at the same tempo) without playing the same rhythmic pattern.

I agree.

And just listen to and play along with a lot of recordings. You'll get some sense of what different people do, and how things tend to work.

stedtale · #7 01-30-2007, 01:08 PM

Yeah. Locking in doesn't mean playing exactly the same exact rhythm, it just means that the two of you are in sync, on the same wavelength.

I do know a producer who usually has the bass players that come in do at least one take playing right along with the kick or vice versa (drummer's kick follows the bass), just to see what comes of it, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.

stedtale · #8 01-30-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

And just listen to and play along with a lot of recordings. You'll get some sense of what different people do, and how things tend to work.

+1

Listen to how different bass player/drummer combos interact with each other.

It'll be different for different styles and different players.

dlloyd · #9 01-30-2007, 01:46 PM

Listen to King Harvest Will Surely Come by The Band.

Superb example of a bass perfectly locked in with the the drums but never playing with the kick drum or snare. Locking does not mean playing at the same time.

Phalex · #10 01-30-2007, 01:57 PM

Nope.

I find myself sync'd up with the Hi-Hat or snare as often as I am with the kick.

I guess I play with the drummer, not the kick drum.

#11 01-30-2007, 02:28 PM

I put it in terms of groove. Before I go too far, let me just say that none of the rules apply ALL THE TIME. If you are playing swing, jass, soul, and funk, you will want to play in the "back" of the groove. Let the kick drum pull you along so to speak. I don't mean drag behind a lot. Just behind the kick will suffice. This tends to give those styles of music that relaxed (almost cocky) feel they are going for. With most rock and country, I stay right on top of the kick, or right "in the groove" (when the pattern applies). This is by no means a full detailed explaination of what goes on, but it's a start.

spindizzy · #12 01-30-2007, 02:54 PM

I think it is important to point out here that "locking in" with the drummer doesn't necessarily mean any particular aspect of his/her set. Most funk players tend to favor the kick as it is the fundimental that the music itself emphasizes. If you incorporate the kick in your bassline doesn't necessarily mean that you are required to play just that. I will lock with the kick (again for the purpose of my example like you would in a funk tune) for kind of my main metaphore in the bassline but then seek other aspects of the drummers play to either incorporate in the bassline or to play off of in a sort of counterpoint fashion. In some forms of music I play it's the snare I am making my main source of lock. In other cases (real free form jazz stuff) if the drummer and I cross paths ocasionally in recognition that we are in fact playing the same tune we generally just wave and move on.

Considering that at the same time I am also playing a similar game with the chordal instruments and the melody (as all aspects are part of what you should be striving to be "locked into") it is a fundimental truth that I strive to play with the group and the drummer is simply my closest partner in crime.

Locking is good and is an essential way we bass players play nice with others. However as many have already suggested there are no hard and fast rules simply what the piece your are playing dictates.

cowsgomoo · #13 01-30-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpop101

how close to the what the drummer is playing do you really need to be?

you're supposed to work together with the other musicians in the band to make some interesting music... sometimes this means locking down everything, and sometimes this means completely contradicting everything some or all the other musicians are doing

you certainly need to be able to lock in with the drums when necessary but you don't have to do anything all the time

**Thor** · #14 01-30-2007, 03:02 PM

^ What he (spindizzy) said. Well stated!

In a autobiography published in the late '80's Mick Fleetwood
noted that he consistently played behind John McVie,
creating their 'sound'. Not everyone likes their commercial
music, but I haven't found anyone that wouldn't say that
they weren't the epitome of the 'locked in' rhythm section.

gkbass13 · #15 01-30-2007, 03:09 PM

the word always shouldnt be used in music or art. there really arent any rules necessarily...play what you want when you want. some things might sound better than others to most people, but that dosnt make them better or right....ask tom waits;-)

YogSothoth · #16 01-31-2007, 12:53 AM

I think a good answer to this question is:

Imagine listening to Dream Theatre and John Myung only plays a note each time Mike Portnoy hits one of his three bass drums.

Ouch.

mpop101 · #17 02-01-2007, 11:49 AM

thank you all very much, very helpfull. I' ve only just joined this site and already i know ive come to the right place

fearceol · #18 02-02-2007, 12:50 PM

A big thanks from me as well. I'm absorbing all the info here. I have n't being playing bass very long and up to now I've being playing along to cd's. My first jam session with other musicians is next week and I'm a little apprehensive as to how I'll do on the day. Playing to cd's is fine but the real thing is a different ball game. The info in here will be a big help.