Does playing at really slow speed improve timing?

[bmwrenen]

I have been reading some TB threads talking about slowing the metronome down to a very slow tempo ~40 bpm, and playing to it, to improve your timing. I am a little skeptical, but nonetheless want to improve my timing. I typically use a metronome, or play with the record, or play with a slowed down version of the record. But was wondering how to improve timing when your jamming with a new band, and you picking out your notes/patterns, how to keep what you play consistent.

[MarkTAW]

Being able to play at every tempo from 40 to 140 will improve your timing.

The gap between beats at 40 bpm is so great that you have to have a strong internal rhythm to meet the next beat precisely.

When you play at 40, try treating the beat as either the kick or the snare (alternate) and play through that.

But was wondering how to improve timing when your jamming with a new band, and you picking out your notes/patterns, how to keep what you play consistent.

Keep the high hat going in your head at all times. Subdivide the notes into the smallest piece necessary to keep the rhythm going.

[chris.gotfunk]

YES!!!! Playing slow with a metronome will improve you timing if you practice it. The slower you go, the tougher it is to keep the beat.
As for the band thing, you have different potential timing issues. People slowing down and speeding up (especially the drummer) is tough. You could always use a metronome to jam. If anything, put it in your hear and force everyone else to follow your timing.
At my church, we use a lot of loops and sampled stuff, so we are always on some kind of click. Sometimes it is still tough to get people to stay on the click even when it is right in our ears.
Another challenge is to pick any song that you know the bassline to by heart, and cut the beats down to maybe one every other bar. For example, 80bpm=1/4 note, 40bpm=every other beat, 20bpm=1 beat per measure, 10bpm=every other measure. I think that is right. I never really wrote that out before. You are keeping the same speed (80bpm) and groove, just giving yourself less click to go off of. Very tough.
enjoy!!!
Peace,
Chris

[Lesfunk]

Playing slow and keeping a good time feel is more challenging than playing fast.
It's good to practice things like ostinatos slow then work them up to speed. You'll find it will help your feel.
Playing with a drum machine is good because you can hear the subdivisions of the beat as opposed to a metronome which mostly is used to keep 1/4 notes

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by bmwrenen

.......But was wondering how to improve timing when your jamming with a new band, and you picking out your notes/patterns, how to keep what you play consistent.

Time and groove is alway more important than note selection. When making choices about what to play...... keep the time solid.

[fruitlabor]

Being a drummer and a bassist I understand tempo and the problems you can face with a drummer who has tempo problems. I the case of a click track it hleps if the drummer cranks it up in his ear and everyone else follows him. At least you'll have one tempo. Playing slow will not only help your tempo. But it will also help with your fingering when you began to play at faster tempos. Believe or not it also applies to drumming as well. Fundamentals and rudiments. Be blessed!

[matthewbrown]

In my experience, intentional work on slow tempos (and on fast tempos using a slow click on one beat) pays off BIG TIME. I play mostly without a drummer, and playing with a slow click has really helped me internalize a steady tempo. Of course, my chops have to be up to play fast...

[stringslinger95]

I'm so happy I'm a bassist now and not a guitard! Haha I've read so many guitar magazines that focus on speed, while they do say start slowly and work your way up, the end goal is always plaster faster. I did this for a long time and then at one point for sh*ts and giggles I tried playing something a 60bpm and I couldn't do it! I'm so glad you guys have put emphasis on the importance and difficulty of playing slow. It's actually harder to play very slowly sometimes than it is to play fast. You really get to see your true sense of timing and rhythm and how you can internally feel the beat when it's slow. So let your fingers take a break, slow down feel it and enjoy it. Cheers

[dreadheadbass]

yup playing slow improves your timing and beleive it or not it improves your speed to as it aids muscle memory so when you up the tempo your fingers already know where they need to be

[MarkTAW]

Guitarists try to play at the fastest BPM possible? That shouldn't surprise me. Maybe we ought to start a magazine for guitarists - with advice from *real* musicians.

</end "oh snap">

[98dvl]

It helps... and it's not easy...

On a related note, when playing with my old drummer, we'd slow down parts that weren't "tight" during rehearsal. Sometimes, you could feel everything come together at say 60 or 80 bpm (depending on the song). It was great, but he'd always want to slow it down even more. Playing fast songs at 40 bpm is hard...

I know what he was trying to do, but after a while, we got nothing accomplished. Breaking every 5 minutes to play something ridiculously slow (as a group) can get really annoying, especially when it came together at just a slightly slowed pace (and stayed that way once we sped back up).

In the end, I think he always wanted to slow it down, because he had troubles keeping time... Even when playing with a click track, he had a really hard time maintaining a constant tempo for more than a few bars. That's why he's no longer our drummer (among other reasons).

Moral of the story, work on really slow tempos on your own time. When in a rehearsal situation, slow down as needed, but don't get crazy slow (unless you really need to!)

[phat daddy]

Making your band play slower can help a lot too. I play a lot of funk and raggae, and if things aren't grooving with my band the first thing I do is have the drummer keep the tempo at a lower BPM. 9 times out of 10, INSTANT GROOVE. All bands are different, but that's how it works in my band, and they're all pros. Many bands speed things up live, but I actually try to chill my band's tempos out live to keep things grooving and danceable, rather than rocked out. Also, players tend to get a little excited live whether they admit it or not, I know I do, so slowing things down intentionally keeps the songs from gaining tempo when everybody gets pumped up.

[MarkTAW]

40 is hard. 60 at least is a variant on 120, 40 is just a variant on 80 and 80 already is slow.

It's also not JUST for playing slow, it's for making the click half notes and whole notes and seeing how well you keep time.

Say you have a song that's 100 bpm. Practice it with the click at 100 bpm. The click is quarter notes - 1, 2, 3, 4.

Then practice it with the click at 50 bpm and make the click 1 & 3.

Then practice it with the click at 50 bpm and make the click 2 & 4.

Then practice it with the click at 25 bpm and make the click 1.

Then practice it with the click at 25 bpm and make the click 2.

See if you're still hitting the 1 after a few fills.

[giantrobot_69]

Without a doubt. It gets you subdividing. I spend time down @ 30 bpm because I find that 40 bpm is a little too quick and I lose some control.

[JFace]

The fewer beats per minute, the fewer references you have to what is correct time, thus you are relying on your timing, not the timing of the drummer or the metronome. An even more useful practice technique would be eliminating beats 2+4 (or cutting your current BPM in half). There's a Victor Wooten video on BassPlayer.com that shows the importance of this.

[Muss]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

40 is hard. 60 at least is a variant on 120, 40 is just a variant on 80 and 80 already is slow.

It's also not JUST for playing slow, it's for making the click half notes and whole notes and seeing how well you keep time.

Say you have a song that's 100 bpm. Practice it with the click at 100 bpm. The click is quarter notes - 1, 2, 3, 4.

Then practice it with the click at 50 bpm and make the click 1 & 3.

Then practice it with the click at 50 bpm and make the click 2 & 4.

Then practice it with the click at 25 bpm and make the click 1.

Then practice it with the click at 25 bpm and make the click 2.

See if you're still hitting the 1 after a few fills.

+1

[JTE]

Um, 40 IS a variant on 120. It's one-third. But what's the magic of 120? But, yeah- working on stuff at stupidly low tempos really helps you to make sure you're nailing the subtlties of a part. At higher tempo it's easy to slop through a tough bit, but if you slow it way down you need to articulate it very carefully. If you think you can play something at 100 BPM, but you can't get it at 50 BPM, then you're not playing it correctly at 100, you're just fakin' it.

And it's vital in my opinion to use a metronome set to click only on 2 and 4. All musicians need to keep good time, but frequently the bassist's job is to provide the 1 and 3. If you're used to relying on the 'nome to keep you in time you still don't have time and all the metronome practice in the world won't make it better. You need to be able to rely on your internal sense of time and use the metronome as a tool to measure your accuracy.

jte

[bmwrenen]

Ok, so I have a Boss Dr. Beat DB-88 Metronome, it does quarter notes beeps, eight note beeps, 16th note beats, and 32nd note beat (or triplets not sure what you call it is the 1-te-ta, 2-te-ta like Dazed and Confused)

So lets see I set the nome to 40. Beats on quarter notes. Everytime it beeps I consider it either a 1,3 or a 2,4 and I count the 2,4 or 1,3 in my head (basically when taping foot is up). The eight note plays in between the 1,3 so I call it the 2,4. Is this what you are referring to. Basically it beeps at 40 bpm but you play at 80 bmp, so its kind of like playing in put time, and works on you timing because you personally have to practice you inner timing.

I also made up a basic drum track on Guitar pro closed high-hat plays the eight notes, bass drum on 1,3 and snare on 2, 4. I could set that tempo to anything as well, and play with that.

How much time should be spent during practice time? I practice about 30-60 mins a day, but play the bass for more than 2-3 hours. (practicing new songs, timing, scales, transcribing and the rest of the time i just come up with little bass parts and save them on GP so i dont forget them.)

[MarkTAW]

It sounds like you've got it.

> bass drum on 1,3 and snare on 2, 4

The click is either the kick or the snare.

> How much time should be spent during practice time?

As much as you think you need. You should also try the exercise while clapping - try clapping with the click at various tempos and seeing if you can get the click to "disappear" within the clap sound. It's a bit more precise than playing notes since the attack is a bit fatter on the bass than when you clap.

This is really one of those "a few minutes a day" / need to internalize it things. Don't play into frustration.

[Lincoln]

YUP!!!

for starters it helps you focus on proper technique -- you hear your slop loud and clear which allows you to focus on each hand individually.

also you can hear all the subdivisions clearly and evenly which when played at high speeds will sound like actual notes not sloppy attempts at grace notes or rakes across strings.

When practiced at slow intentional tempos consistantly you will build muscle memory that will surprise you when you are playing live at real time tempos. The key is that will be playing naturally and instinctively -- and cleanly