Donna Lee

[quasiz_bassist]

I just have some questions about the tune... I'm trying to understand theory better I guess. What key is it in? I know A flat, but like, A flat major or minor or what? I can't really tell. sorry if i sound noobish.

[Pacman]

Moved to General Instruction.

[DocBop]

Donna Lee is typical of Jazz standards of the period and is changing keys all thru the tune. Learning to analyze tunes is part of the process of learning to solo over tunes like this. You need to know basic theory of harmonized scales so you can spot the key changes. For example the first bar of Donna Lee is in Ab major, but bars 2-4 are in Eb major and bar 5-7 returns to Ab and bar 8 is in Db and so on.

So you need to be able to look at chords and spot key center because a tune with played 230 bmp and fast probably not going to be thinking chord/scale.

There are lots of books that cover basic theory and sure many here can recommend some.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Donna Lee is typical of Jazz standards of the period and is changing keys all thru the tune. Learning to analyze tunes is part of the process of learning to solo over tunes like this. You need to know basic theory of harmonized scales so you can spot the key changes. For example the first bar of Donna Lee is in Ab major, but bars 2-4 are in Eb major and bar 5-7 returns to Ab and bar 8 is in Db and so on.

So you need to be able to look at chords and spot key center because a tune with played 230 bmp and fast probably not going to be thinking chord/scale.

There are lots of books that cover basic theory and sure many here can recommend some.

+1

Look at Charlie Parker transcriptions in the Omnibook. He plays a lot of bebop (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 n7) scales over as many dominant chords as possible. He doesn't approach the changes one chord at a time with a different mode for each one. He's looking at a bigger harmonic picture.

[WillBuckingham]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

+1

Look at Charlie Parker transcriptions in the Omnibook. He plays a lot of bebop (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 n7) scales over as many dominant chords as possible. He doesn't approach the changes one chord at a time with a different mode for each one. He's looking at a bigger harmonic picture.

Can you show one example of Charlie Parker playing that scale? I don't think so. Charlie Parker used chord tones, passing tones, etc. to make construct his lines.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by WillBuckingham

Can you show one example of Charlie Parker playing that scale? I don't think so. Charlie Parker used chord tones, passing tones, etc. to make construct his lines.

You just said so yourself he's using passing tones which is how the natural 7 functions in a bebop scale. He also likes to "surround" hit target notes with chromatic upper and lower neighbors.

[HaVIC5]

Really, the entire piece is in Ab Major with a temporary modulation to F minor (the relative minor) in the B section. It's not actually visiting any other key - there are brief tonicizations here and there (the Db major in the 9th bar), but that's not a modulation by any stretch. Secondary dominants don't mean modulation.

[quasiz_bassist]

ok so its in a flat major, but from what i'm reading, in bebop you can use notes outside of the scale?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by quasiz_bassist

ok so its in a flat major, but from what i'm reading, in bebop you can use notes outside of the scale?

Oh yeah. On a dominant chord you can play anything you want and it is considered an alteration and still "inside" of some scale.

Here's the problem with modes and everybody's fascination with them: They sound boring. Seriously. Do you like the sounds of George Winston and Andreas Vollenweider? That's all modal stuff and it sounds very bland. If I have a G7 chord staring at me from a sheet I could play G mixolydian which is the correct mode, or I could play G lydian dominant and take advantage of a flat 5, or G superlocrian and get flat 5, sharp 5, flat 9 and sharp 9. Or I could even play a G-g chromatic scale and every note (with the exception fof the natural 11th that sounds bad) completely fits Root, flat 9, 9, sharp 9, 3rd, 11th (bad), flat 5, 5th, aug 5th, 13th, dominant 7th and major 7th (although I would use this as a passing tone and not start or end a phrase on it).

V is where the fun is at.

[HaVIC5]

That's all modal stuff and it sounds very bland.

Have you listened to Kind of Blue?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Have you listened to Kind of Blue?

That illustrates my point perfectly. The solos are "outside" of the chord constantly, because 35 minutes of blowing on a dorian scale is boring.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

That illustrates my point perfectly. The solos are "outside" of the chord constantly, because 35 minutes of blowing on a dorian scale is boring.

That's not true - there has been a lot of analysis of this and Miles, Coltrane and Bill Evans played modally - although Adderley just played what he usually did!!

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

That illustrates my point perfectly. The solos are "outside" of the chord constantly, because 35 minutes of blowing on a dorian scale is boring.

I suggest transcribing the solos, namely the ones on So What and Flamenco Sketches. Like Bruce said, Cannonball is off doing his own boppish thing a lot of the time, but Evans, Coltrane and Miles are extremely modal. With a few exceptions, there weren't even any chromatics in those crazy scalar runs Coltrane is known for.