Don't play the thirds?

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by jmac

I think to truly get to the bottom of this we need to know if it was a Blues-Jazz jam or a Jazz-Blues jam.

That's really the only way.

Correct. And was it held on the Isle of Lucy?

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by Anonymatt

I often play thirds on the one, but it's usually kind of an accident I've walked my way into. And then I will do it again or something to kind of make a pattern out of it.

HAHA! The first rule of Jazz:

If you make a mistake, repeat it so the listeners will think it was intentional!

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Other things to avoid at a Blues Jam:
7 String Basses
Slapping
anything written after 1960
harmonica players

Are 9 string basses and tapping okay?

[hgiles]

Yeah, some soloists want to have choices, AND your job is to support the soloist; so technically you are supposed to be subservient to the soloist.

On blues tunes it can be tricky. #9s on Dominant 7th chords? Tricky one. Listen to hear what kind of third the soloist is playing and also WHEN. In a blues tune you are generally safe playing the major third in bar 4 regardless of whether you're major or minor. Everywhere else, listen to the soloist, what kind of third is he playing.

If you're playing jazz standards it's better to stick with the changes and play the correct third in the chord; and play the third late in the bar. If the chord resolves up a fourth you can change a minor third to a major third if you play it late in the bar; otherwise there really isn't a lot of futzing with the thirds on standard 32 bar tunes.

BTW, I play a lot of jazz saxophone.

[hgiles]

BTW, the difference between a m3 and a #9 is in the spelling which is dictated by the voice leading. In other words; how do they resolve?

Also any chord with a #9 designation is typically a Dominant 7th type chord that resolves up a fourth and has a MAJOR third. Any other type of chord with a #9 designation is USUALLY bad nomenclature.

[carpcutter]

Originally Posted by scottbass

HAHA! The first rule of Jazz:

If you make a mistake, repeat it so the listeners will think it was intentional!

I think I just discovered that I'm a jazz guitarist! Less so on bass.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

I was at a blues/jazz jam last night and the trumpet player told me that I shouldn't play the thirds as it limits what the horns can solo on. First time I heard this? This guy has toured with "A" list bands so I suspect he knows what he's talking about . Anyone care to elaborate? Thanks!

Ya at open jams sometimes people like to tell the bass player what to do.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Other things to avoid at a Blues Jam:
7 String Basses
Slapping
anything written after 1960
harmonica players

If you go to a blues jam in Detroit then you will see slapping.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

The "beats" of that line are 1585 - I think we've established that the issue is with playing a 3rd on the beat. Off the beat as a passing note seems to be "OK", even if the soloing is in a minor - that major 3rd just becomes a flatted 4th AKA "blue" note?

I was referring to "In the Mood."

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by Ric5

If you go to a blues jam in Detroit then you will see slapping.

I kid, I kid! I was just picking at the "Blues Police". Every Blues Jam has 'em!

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Are 9 string basses and tapping okay?

Call the "Blues Police"! LOL!

[SquierJazz72]

From my understanding, leaving out the third in a bass line will keep it from being identified as major or minor, therefore it creates that ambiguity which allows either tonality to be used over it.

If that's the freedom he was looking for, then I get it from that perspective.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Anonymatt

I often play thirds on the one, but it's usually kind of an accident I've walked my way into. And then I will do it again or something to kind of make a pattern out of it.

Ron Carter likes to play the 3rd on the first beat.

[Guitalia]

I could see the trumpet player making the "no thirds" request for modal jazz; he'd probably be fine with thirds in a tune with a walking bass line.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Freddels

Ron Carter likes to play the 3rd on the first beat.

Well, when I get that good and famous I'll play any darn note any darn time I want to also LOL.

[Sloop John D]

It's not really about what's been done successfully before, you want to think about what it is you're trying to do now. If you're trying open up the music and explore some alternative melodies, then a bassist who hits the 3rd too often can start to become limiting.

One of the more common scale substitutions I've seen soloists use is playing a Mixolydian scale on top of a minor key tune. Because the notes are nearly identical except for the 3rd, it's easy to slip in a few melodies based on the Mixolydian mode, but if you have a bassist who won't lay off that third for a bar or two, it's going to cause some clashing.

I don't think you should be thinking about what other bassists play or what's fair. You guys are trying to make great music. I think a better approach would be to listen to the music and see where it's heading, and then do what you can to support its direction. If the soloist sounds like he wants to play around with tonalities, then it's not a big deal to lay off the 3rd for a few bars and let him do that.

[INTP]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

I cannot possibly think of a note that defines the chord changes more clearly than the third. (My order of importance: 3rd, 7th, root, 5th.)

Certainly, the third is critical to defining the chord quality, but the manner in which it is used is important. I was thinking that the trumpet player's suggestion might have been a shortcut to a discussion that requires much more subtlety.

But I am not a mind reader, and I wasn't there. I do believe that the trumpet player felt the need to say something because something wasn't working for him.

[rimbaud]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Other things to avoid at a Blues Jam:
7 String Basses
Slapping
anything written after 1960
harmonica players

So what happens when a guitarist wants you to play "put the shoe on the other foot" on a big venue (that you gently learned slap version, like this--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kwr9f-e5z4), and **** you with his poo poo finger basslines that doesn't sound ??

[prd004]

This is a prime example of why I love power trio's

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Yes, both .

I hope I didn't come off as smarmy in my question - here in Boston we have open jams for blues, but I don't know of any open jams for jazz (or certainly not both). To me, it's critical to understand in what context the trumpet player was asking you to omit or reduce your use of the third. Was it Stormy Monday, or was it Stella By Starlight?

Originally Posted by INTP

Certainly, the third is critical to defining the chord quality, but the manner in which it is used is important. I was thinking that the trumpet player's suggestion might have been a shortcut to a discussion that requires much more subtlety.

But I am not a mind reader, and I wasn't there. I do believe that the trumpet player felt the need to say something because something wasn't working for him.

Agreed - see my comment above. I can see in some sort of blues context that the horn soloist may want to hammer the #9 and the natural 3rd in the bass could be a problem. But if the tune in question was Stella by Starlight, or There Will Never be Another You, one would think that the third would be fine in the bass.

To take it to the extreme, imagine a Monk tune - you could play the b9, 9, (#9, b3rd) and nat 3rd and he'd smile - just ask Charlie Rouse.