Don't play the thirds?

[Roy Vogt]

Originally Posted by rimbaud

So what happens when a guitarist wants you to play "put the shoe on the other foot" on a big venue (that you gently learned slap version, like this--> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kwr9f-e5z4), and **** you with his poo poo finger basslines that doesn't sound ??

Hello? Note the emoticon. I kid, I kid! Johnny B. Gayden is a bad**s! It was a crack about the "Blues Police" so ubiquitous at Blues Jams. LOL!

[azureblue]

Odd - I've never in over 40 years of playing, had any jazz horn player tell me that. And I have read a lot of jazz verbatim charts that have strong thirds in the bass parts. I know what the guy is saying, but he's putting it to you as if you are a beginner who doesn't know how to work your lines to the solos. What he probably wants is to play the "blue" notes, so all you have to do is to add #9s in your walking lines, and drop some flat 5s in, too, to give him the "room" he is looking to hear. One of the secrets of being a good jazz bassist is to be able to adjust your lines to the soloist, and "flow" with him. Know when to stay on the bottom and outline the chords, and when to open up and throw in substitutions and extensions, chromatics, etc.

[Gary Banlowe]

You should have played the 10 instead of just the third.....just to tick off this "musical snob". Rule #1, music is a creative endeavor. Have fun with it and let him deal with it.

[MegstuAlu]

I think it's about not limiting the one who is playing the solo. I mean if you keep playing the major third it kinda limits the soloist to a major scale, where as if you would keep clear from the third all together it would allow him to variate between major and minor scales and all the modes in his solo .. I think it's pretty important to leave as much space as possible to the soloing guy, no matter what genre the music is

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

I hope I didn't come off as smarmy in my question

Not at all

here in Boston we have open jams for blues, but I don't know of any open jams for jazz (or certainly not both).

It wasn't an open jam, kind of invite only without the elitism that might imply.

To me, it's critical to understand in what context the trumpet player was asking you to omit or reduce your use of the third. Was it Stormy Monday, or was it Stella By Starlight?

Well, I don't quite remember but the tunes I sortof knew the bassline to went OK. Anyways there's been some great advice here so far and I'm working on lines that avoid the 3rds, 4ths, and 6ths on the beats and reach up for that 9th which I under-utilize. I do tend to use the 2nd already in them muddy lowdown Texas blues tunes with the minor 3rd off the beat only already.

Anyways if yous guys want a chuckle check this out, recorded on an iPhone after the drummer had to leave:
http://www.aspinock.com/abc/Stormy M...m 11-26-12.mp3
I think you'll clearly see them cats were way better than me LOL.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by azureblue

I know what the guy is saying, but he's putting it to you as if you are a beginner who doesn't know how to work your lines to the solos.

Compared to him that would be true LOL. I took no offence to it - actually I'm the one that invited him. It was just a quick comment that wasn't smarmy at all. He's playing the Wolf Den with some stellar session guys and a guitarist who was once named by Guitar Player Magazine as the best blues guitarist in the US, on 12/3 at 7 if anyone is local . I do sound for them guys on occasion. Turned out the trumpet player lives like 5 minutes away from the jam so that's how he came to be there .

[tkarter]

Just play the 3rd flat.

tk

[NYCbassist]

Sometimes you can play a song exactly like the Album and somebody will have a problem with it.
To me it would be a goal to jam with the trumpet player again but this time get an Atta-boy instead of a critical comment. Whether we like it or not, Bass is a supporting instrument. Trumpet's do a lot of soloing. "You kind of have to lead him where he's taking you" I used the Quotes because I just made that up

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by NYCbassist

Whether we like it or not, Bass is a supporting instrument.

You're not necessarily wrong, but if everyone laid down and played oompah music on bass there would never have been a Domenico Dragonetti, a maniacal Beethoven composing bass lines that didn't actually double the 'cellos, Mingus, Scott LaFaro, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, McCartney, Juan Alderete, John Wetton with distortion blowing out eardrums, Victor Wooten, Michael Manring, Pino Palladino, Sam Jones or Ron Carter doubling on 'cello because we're playing a damn support instrument and don't do what you want to do, do what you're freaking told!

[Slax]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Not at all It wasn't an open jam, kind of invite only without the elitism that might imply.Well, I don't quite remember but the tunes I sortof knew the bassline to went OK. Anyways there's been some great advice here so far and I'm working on lines that avoid the 3rds, 4ths, and 6ths on the beats and reach up for that 9th which I under-utilize. I do tend to use the 2nd already in them muddy lowdown Texas blues tunes with the minor 3rd off the beat only already.

Anyways if yous guys want a chuckle check this out, recorded on an iPhone after the drummer had to leave:
http://www.aspinock.com/abc/Stormy M...m 11-26-12.mp3
I think you'll clearly see them cats were way better than me LOL.

Thanks for the track! I really enjoyed listening to it!

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

You're not necessarily wrong, but if everyone laid down and played oompah music on bass there would never have been a Domenico Dragonetti, a maniacal Beethoven composing bass lines that didn't actually double the 'cellos, Mingus, Scott LaFaro, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, McCartney, Juan Alderete, John Wetton with distortion blowing out eardrums, Victor Wooten, Michael Manring, Pino Palladino, Sam Jones or Ron Carter doubling on 'cello because we're playing a damn support instrument and don't do what you want to do, do what you're freaking told!

I'm with you 100%. It's a never ending quest to gain enough freedom/respect to play whatever you want. However>>>>>>When in a band/Jam situation, what you're doing has to work with the mix. Part of the Ongoing learning experience is finding ways to show your mad Skills. It has to be done Tastefully especially in an open Jam session. It's different when you're Wooten and you've been given full freedom. John Entwistle IMO was given about the most Freedom of any Bassist. In most cases if you played as Busily as JE, Some one in the band would complain it was too busy. JE was very lucky to Have Pete, Keith & Roger. Yes He was great and what he did was great but he was given full freedom. The OP isn't asking for advice to become a World Renowned Soloist. He wants to become a Solid "Anchor" of a Bass player. At least that's how I interpret the original question. A bass players job 1 is hold down the Groove. Then like I said find "tasteful" ways to Show off the mad skills. My "lead him where he's taking you" Refers to the tremendous "hidden" power of the Bass. The Bass is always leading the song. Pulling back on the Tempo when needed or making it "Swing" just a little bit. The other musicians don't even realize that they are really Following you but they are. Like I said I agree with you but there's a whole lot more to Bass than most realize. It is the absolute best instrument to have the honor of playing.

[bkbirge]

That's a guideline I've heard for soloists on piano or sax more than for bass and I always thought it was just to keep runs from sounding too scale-like. If you can play the III iii on bass in tune then go for it I say. Whatever sounds good is the real rule. But there is something to be said for taking some instruction from more experienced guys, plus it's good people skills and will get you more gigs.

[bkbirge]

lolz, probably would solve the issue,

Originally Posted by tkarter

Just play the 3rd flat.

tk

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Slax

Thanks for the track! I really enjoyed listening to it!

You're welcome .

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Roy Vogt

Other things to avoid at a Blues Jam:
7 String Basses
Slapping
anything written after 1960
harmonica players

The most important thing to avoid at a blues jam - the venue.

[prd004]

Unless I'm getting paid I'm never a support instrument! :- D

[jeffbonny]

Unless I'm soloing I'm always a "support" instrument. If a horn player asked me not to play thirds I'd have no problems at all with it. It's an out of the ordinary request in a blues context and might go somewhere interesting. It's not like it would kill you to try it. Some of you people are acting like you have nothing left to learn.

[Roadkill]

Definitely a lot of different opinions here on TB as to what constitutes being a bassist and/or bassplayer .

[Russell L]

It just dawned on me that maybe what the horn player meant by saying, "Don't play 3rds," applied to just the particular song being played. No different than when a player told me, "It's Lydian," before we started a tune once. Huh?

[ACalbass]

I see a lot of animosity toward other players from reading the posts.
Are you guys really that angry to send to hell any player that is going to give you pointers about how to play a song or a part?
I mean,why are you guys in a band after all?
I can find a lot of reasons to obey what the other players want us to play,specially knowing the OP refers to them as "better players" or people that play at high levels.
I bet you would NOT have this attitude if the player is Brecker or Miles Davis.(named just for the example),you surely listen,right? well,this is no different : you want to learn more? this is a chance,you do what you are told and see the outcome,analyze it,it will probably have a foundation you might not understand right away.
The only challenge is to make the best with the part you play,not to challenge the other players.
As a rule,you play a jam in an organized way,and people will jam over what is comfortable to them.
So,what will happen when you do not follow the rules? things are not coming out as expected,some people will be limited on what they can play,trying to stay afloat while wondering what is going on back there.
My advice to the OP : let's say he mention that to you because he needed freedom to use musical devices that will clash with those 3rds,wouldn't you abide? in the case you won't,why wouldn't you?
Let's agree it is beyond the scoop of your knowledge and the reason the start a thread about it.
In my view,there are tons of options open when no 3rds are involved (5 notes scales,6 notes scales,tons of scales and modes from them,and out of key too)
Is a shame the thread is not about what the guy ACTUALLY PLAYED,when you didn't play those 3rds.
That would a serious thread to dive into.