Down with the bass clef!

[caeman]

Just an annoyance, a tiny rant of mine. I have found the Treble Clef to sufficient for every other instrument I play and I have managed to learn to sight read it. Slowly. But I can.

Up to now, the extent of my bass playing has been off of lyric sheets with chords written above the words.

So now I find myself working through the Hal Leonard Bass Methods book. The Complete edition printing. It is devoid of tabs, but I personally don't find tab all that easy to read. So there it is, the bass clef. An entire book of exercises using it.

And I feel lost. I am out of comfort zone, my area of (suspect) knowledge.

I have dropped back to my treble clef learning trick of writing the note below the staff. I find that having to sight-read a clef I am not familiar to be an impediment to the actual playing process.

So...why use the bass clef? That Low E is below the staff. Most basses are 4-stringers. That is still the predominate model. Why put your lowest note below the staff? Treble clef would seem to work just fine for this.

I play a 5-er. This puts my lowest notes even further below the staff, should I ever happen across music with such notation.

Personally, I will stick with treble clef if I need to notate something. That, or use NNS more and more.

Sorry. Just felt the need to release some frustration during my learning.

[GeoffTPS!]

That's why alot of kids take piano lessons. Get your start learning both clefs. My worst was when I tried to pick up viola and had to deal with the alto clef.

[standupright]

if you use treble clef for notating bass music, then you would really be notating way below the staff.

[caeman]

Well, I am learning it. I have no choice if I want to finish using the Bass Method book. As for notating on the Treble clef, I don't start way below. I start at the normal bottom line. I predominantly have played out of what I believe is called third position, or something like that. My fingers rarely ascend beyond the 6th fret.

[zenrad]

I started by learning to read and play classical guitar music for many years. The notes on the treble clef go from many ledger lines both above and below the staff for guitar. You learn to read them and understand their look. To accurately write bass notes in treble clef you'd have to write them all far below the staff, otherwise you'd just end up with higher pitched notes. Even if you write with a -8va indication (a little odd but possible) you would still end up with at least 3 ledger lines for a low E. Remember, the bass clef places the notes within the staff - it actually moves the notes higher given their pitch. Moving to treble clef would only make matters worse.

The high notes on bass are above the staff as well, once you move beyond the 4th fret of the G string.

I taught myself to read bass clef and it took about a week to get my brain used to the location of the notes, but I already knew how to read at that point. Learning to read notes on ledger lines takes a little time, but your brain will get used to seeing them and with practice you'll be reading them the same as any other.

[zenrad]

Oh yeah, and wait until you start learning to read in positions. You'll need to re-learn the locations of all the notes but they are written the same

Not as bad on bass as it is on guitar, but it's still confusing at first.

Be patient - it takes time before it becomes second nature, just like any language.

[MalcolmAmos]

Only problem with using treble clef - treble clef is normally reserved for the melody and the bass clef is reserved for the chord or harmony part of the song. Normally ...

We play chord tones. Best place to pick them up is the bass clef.

If you read treble, bass only takes a few more days to learn. Instead of starting on Every good boy, start on Good boys do .... Treble clef, where is the ledger note C? With bass clef where is the ledger note E? Same spot - just adjust your limerick.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by caeman

Just an annoyance, a tiny rant of mine. I have found the Treble Clef to sufficient for every other instrument I play and I have managed to learn to sight read it. Slowly. But I can.

Up to now, the extent of my bass playing has been off of lyric sheets with chords written above the words.

So now I find myself working through the Hal Leonard Bass Methods book. The Complete edition printing. It is devoid of tabs, but I personally don't find tab all that easy to read. So there it is, the bass clef. An entire book of exercises using it.

And I feel lost. I am out of comfort zone, my area of (suspect) knowledge.

I have dropped back to my treble clef learning trick of writing the note below the staff. I find that having to sight-read a clef I am not familiar to be an impediment to the actual playing process.

So...why use the bass clef? That Low E is below the staff. Most basses are 4-stringers. That is still the predominate model. Why put your lowest note below the staff? Treble clef would seem to work just fine for this.

I play a 5-er. This puts my lowest notes even further below the staff, should I ever happen across music with such notation.

Personally, I will stick with treble clef if I need to notate something. That, or use NNS more and more.

Sorry. Just felt the need to release some frustration during my learning.

At risk of posting another 'suck it up princess' post, just keep at it, you'll get it. I had the brain fart problem for a while when learning how to read tenor clef and truthfully, it is still a bit tricky sometimes. I think many people don't realize that double bassists and Cellists both have to read three clefs fluently. (Not sure what they do for high notes on the electric bass)

I personally think the bass clef is a great clef for low register instruments. The trouble with a many octave transposing treble clef is that you'll run into ledger lines once you get out of the bottom octave of the instrument and from there, what clef do you transpose to? Do you really want to read 8va and 15ma ad nauseum? I suppose it is what you are used to. Bass clarinetists all read treble clef, but then their fingerings are all the same for every given note, not matter which flavour of clarinet they happen to be playing.
My suggestion with bass clef is just to memorize a few landmark notes for starts. I'd go with the bottom line (g) the second space from the bottom (c) and then the top line (a). Alternatively, you can memorize where your open strings are. best thing is just to continue to practice sight reading every day. It WILL get easier, trust me!
Just to further confuse the issue, if you play piano you will have undoubtedly discovered that both the Guitar and the Bass Guitar are octave transposing instruments. i.e. the pitches are written one octave higher than they are intended to sound. That can be somewhat confusing at first for someone who is used to reading pitches at pitch.

[dalkowski]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Only problem with using treble clef - treble clef is normally reserved for the melody and the bass clef is reserved for the chord or harmony part of the song. Normally ...

We play chord tones. Best place to pick them up is the bass clef.

If you read treble, bass only takes a few more days to learn. Instead of starting on Every good boy, start on Good boys do .... Treble clef, where is the ledger note C? With bass clef where is the ledger note E? Same spot - just adjust your limerick.

This.

It's time to think about learning bass clef as part of learning the instrument. You sound like someone to loves to learn, so embrace it, don't fight it! Visualize how much broader your knowledge base will become. Best of luck.

[Dr. Love]

Well, the main reason for using the bass clef is due to the octave range of the notes. The bass clef and treble clef are for different octave ranges.

If you look at the grand staff, like a piano uses, the treble clef is on top and the bass clef is on the bottom. "Middle C" is in between the staffs (hence the name). So, the E on the bottom line of the treble clef and the open E string notated one ledger line below the bass clef in your book are actually 2 octaves apart. Not the same note. (Also, as zenrad mentioned, the bass is a transposing instrument and actually sounds and octave lower than written, so that E written one line below the bass clef is actually playing the E at the bottom of that chart, definitely not the same E as the treble clef note)

Just trust that there is a method to the madness of music notation (and transposition), and it will make sense. I promise.

[MonetBass]

You're making it too hard. I had to do the reverse: started on bass clef and learned the treble later.

Mental trick: Take the top line of the bass clef and move it to the bottom line. Ta-da! You're now reading a treble clef without even moving the notes.

[JTE]

If you're thinking of written music as a guide to where to put your fingers, this makes sense. If you look at written music as a guide to SOUND, and you're looking at the intervals rather than translating it to notes^*, then bass clef is no different at all than treble clef... except that it clearly tells not only the bass player, but others, where the notes are in the grand scheme.

Look at a grand staff- with both bass and treble clef. That makes it clear why there's a bass clef.

^*What I mean here is that instead of looking at the staff and thinking

"That's D twice on the 5th fret, or open, then it goes to C at the third fret, then back to the D, then up to an A (either at the second fret, or at the 7th fret), then Ab, then G, then down to C, quickly to D, then F, then back to D" think

"The first note is D, repeat it, then go down a whole step, back to the first note, then up to the fifth, down by half-steps to the fourth, then drop to the whole step below where I started, up to my starting note, then the minor 3rd, then back to the root I started at"

It's a LOT easier and it helps your ear improve too.

John

[JimmyM]

you're being a wuss once you learn it, it will be as easy as treble clef. one good quick way to learn it is to start transcribing a few easy bass parts. you'll figure it out in no time.

[Arthur Strand]

Start with simple stuff. Acclimatize yourself with that until you feel confident that you are comfortable with the bass lines you are practicing on. Learn the scales so you can automatically identify a note and play it each time. Scales are more for sight-reading than general playing. Individuals take different time-spans to learn things and in music that can be so more than in any other walk of life. You may learn standard notation quicker than Tabulature. Or you may learn rhythmic elements faster than your buddy. He may learn riffs quicker than you. It all boils down to the individual.
However, if you are a total enthusiast aiming to be a bassist for life, like me, then, buckle down to a solid half-hour of repetitive sight-reading practice daily. Use head-phones if you do not want to share the output with the rest of the state.
Above all repetition is the only way that you will conquer sight-reading for bass guitar.

[caeman]

Yes, I am being a wuss.

It is good to be honest with one's self when you are trying to expand your learning. By the time I get to the end of the book, I should have GBDFA down as well as I have EGBDF.

But I reserve the right to still be annoyed by it.

[caeman]

Originally Posted by Arthur Strand

Use head-phones if you do not want to share the output with the rest of the state.

Oh, so you HAVE heard me practicing. Sorry 'bout that.

[esoomssab]

Another reason to learn bass clef:

The reason to learn to read and write music is literacy. We can share ideas with others. If you write all of your bass lines in treble clef, you're not communicating properly what you want anyone else to play/sing/hear. If you handed me a sheet of music in treble clef, I would play the notes that were written, not immediately take it down 2 octaves.

So, don't just learn it for yourself - learn it for every other musician you come into contact with!

[Roy Vogt]

Take your information and learn it by step relation. If you know where the C is (second space) then the line above is D and the line below is B. Triads, scales, chords, will all look the same. If you really get hung up, take a cue from Will Lee when he said "Ain't too proud to pencil in"...

[bassybill]

There seems to be some misconception here on TB and elsewhere about the term "sight reading". To sight read a piece means to play it in tempo at first sight. Obviously this is more difficult for some pieces than others, and the phrase "I can sight read" is pretty much meaningless for that reason.

Likewise, there is no such thing as sight reading slowly. That's just reading. Either one can sight read a piece as described above, or one can't.

[RedsFan75]

Originally Posted by Dr. Love

This is a real good graphic representation of what it's all about...

Chuck Rainey's Bass Method book, has a great representation of the bass clef, how it relates to Middle C and lays out on the Fretboard as well as the keyboard. It really clears a lot of it up. I do like the Hal Leonard Complete method a lot but I think Rainey's does a better job laying out the info in a manner that makes it a touch more clear.

Next time you're heading over toward Eastgate give me a yell and I'll loan it to you.