drop C modes/scales?

[diechris]

I've been playing in drop D and C but i dont know what it is.. i just cant picture how the modes would look...


does this look correct? can anyone help me figure out how modes and scales work when you drop your low string?


C Major?
F|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
G|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |


i'm trying to work out a practice routine to memorize my scales and modes when playing dropped.




sorry if nothing makes sense..

[DocBop]

If I understand drop tuning you are just lowering the pitch of all string the same amount. If that is true then you can get any book or other materials on scales and modes and use them. All you have done is shifted the note down, the relationship between notes doesn't change.

I would say if you don't understand scales and modes what are you doing messing around with alternative tunings. Tuning up to pitch and learn your basics before messing with aternative tunings.

[Depth_Charge]

If you drop tune all the strings the scales and modes would remain the same only be in different positions on the fingerboard...if you drop a single string, like we do with Drop D tuning, you would need to remember how many steps what strings are tuned where and compensate to match the original scales/modes


So this scale in EADG is :

G------------------
D-------------2 3
A-------1-3-5---
E-1-3-5------------

So to play this same scale in Drop D tuning, I would play it this way :

G------------------
D-------------2 3
A-------1-3-5---
D-3-5-7---------

I hope this helps you some...

[Angus]

What is the point of practicing MODES if you don't know where the notes are or what they mean?

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by DocBop

I would say if you don't understand scales and modes what are you doing messing around with alternative tunings. Tuning up to pitch and learn your basics before messing with aternative tunings.

+1000

I just don't get why people are doing this when they haven't mastered the conventional tuning yet.

[WillPlay4Food]

Originally Posted by Freddels

+1000

I just don't get why people are doing this when they haven't mastered the conventional tuning yet.

Probably because they're covering songs (like System Of A Down) where you need to drop tune unless you're some kind of bass virtuoso or really enjoy carpal tunnel syndrome.

Also, if you look at the original post, he wants to go from EADG tuning to CGCF, so the fingerings/patterns are different because what used to be the E & A strings (tuned in 4ths) are now C & G (tuned in 5ths) so the fingerings get all whacked.

The question may not have had the best wording so I'm doing some guessing but I believe the original post is asking for verification that the C Major scale in CGCF tuning is fingered as shown in the original post. Once the Major/Ionian fingering is verified, deriving modal fingerings will be a snap.

Original Post

C Major?
F|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
G|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |

I'm not sure if I'm reading the fingering chart quoted above correctly so I'm going to make my own:

C Major

Fret Number
  |0| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |
F |F| - | G | - | A | - | B | C | - | D |  - |  E |  F |
C |C| - | D | - | E | F | - | G | - | A |  - |  B |  C |
G |G| - | A | - | B | C | - | D | - | E |  F |  - |  G |
C |C| - | D | - | E | F | - | G | - | A |  - |  B |  C |

[diechris]

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

Probably because they're covering songs (like System Of A Down) where you need to drop tune unless you're some kind of bass virtuoso or really enjoy carpal tunnel syndrome.

Also, if you look at the original post, he wants to go from EADG tuning to CGCF, so the fingerings/patterns are different because what used to be the E & A strings (tuned in 4ths) are now C & G (tuned in 5ths) so the fingerings get all whacked.

The question may not have had the best wording so I'm doing some guessing but I believe the original post is asking for verification that the C Major scale in CGCF tuning is fingered as shown in the original post. Once the Major/Ionian fingering is verified, deriving modal fingerings will be a snap.

Original Post

C Major?
F|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
G|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |
C|-|0|0|-|0|-|0|-|0|0|-|0 |- |0 |0 |- |0 |- |0 |

I'm not sure if I'm reading the fingering chart quoted above correctly so I'm going to make my own:

C Major

Fret Number
  |0| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 |
F |F| - | G | - | A | - | B | C | - | D |  - |  E |  F |
C |C| - | D | - | E | F | - | G | - | A |  - |  B |  C |
G |G| - | A | - | B | C | - | D | - | E |  F |  - |  G |
C |C| - | D | - | E | F | - | G | - | A |  - |  B |  C |

YES! thank you. thats exactly what i was trying to say.

i use a lot of open C notes for opening riffs and such and using a 5 string would be retarded. thus dropping one string make sense.. i need to practice scales and modes.my habits playing standard tuning make it hard so to picture it helps a lot.

[Snerek]

http://www.rozengain.com/guitar-scal...itarScales.php


use that!!

[DistortedBass]

Originally Posted by diechris

YES! thank you. thats exactly what i was trying to say.

i use a lot of open C notes for opening riffs and such and using a 5 string would be retarded. thus dropping one string make sense.. i need to practice scales and modes.my habits playing standard tuning make it hard so to picture it helps a lot.

How is playing a 5 string "retarded"?

[Beav]

Originally Posted by DistortedBass

How is playing a 5 string "retarded"?

He's not saying playing a 5 string is retarded. He's saying in his situation it's retarded and I agree. It's retarded to play a 5 if you only playing songs in drop D (or C, B, etc...).

[Dsmalls]

Well, to be perfectly honest, the scales don't actually change just because you changed your tuning. The notes will remain the same, musically speaking. C major has the same notes in standard tuning as in any other tuning.

To solve your confusion you need to return to standard tuning, learn where the musical notes lie on your fretboard. Learn about basic music "theory." That's in quotes because this stuff is not theory it's essential. Learn a C major scale. C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

Once you have that down, tune down to CGCF, play a C major scale again, then you will realize that the proper notes have all shifted.

Bottom line: learning about music will solve your problems. A simple fretboard diagram of a ionian mode isn't going to do you ANY good.

[thewanderer24]

Originally Posted by Angus

What is the point of practicing MODES if you don't know where the notes are or what they mean?

+1000000

[Angus]

Yeah, I think it bears repeating, too!

[RickHavok]

Hey Chris,

Here is a detailed explanation of your query:

Drop Tunings And Power Chords

Drop tunings are popular in metal, classical, and other fast music. They allow you to play power chords on the 3 low strings using only one fret, and finger. ie, The open low strings would be "D, A, D", A/D is a D power chord, the 1 and the 5 of the scale.

Power chords are missing the 3rd of the scale they are built on, which is the determining note between a major and minor chord. A C major triad would be spelled, "C, E, G", where as a C minor chord would be, "C, Eb, G". ("b" being used to designate a flat note, or E flat)

Since the order of chord in a major scale is, "M m m M M m d" ("M" being Major, "m" being minor, and "d" being diminished. You can easily imply all of the chords except the diminished, or the vii°. In other words, you can play power chords in place of all the triad or three note chords in any key with one finger on the root note, except the vii°, and this also works for minor keys.

For a C6 chord, raise the higher 5th scale degree one fret on the higher string. For a C7, raise it 2 frets, and for C Maj 7, raise it 3 frets, or find the same note on the next string up, which is more practical.

Drop Tunings and Modes

Drop D tuning is simply normal tuning with the low E dropped down a whole step to D. The other strings remain the same. strings 4-1 on Bass, or 6-1 on guitar are as follows: Bass D A D G. Guitar, D A D G B E. Since the low string is tuned down a whole step, or 2 frets, you're one mode down from where you thought, according to the low D. So, just slide down 1 or 2 frets to continue the mode. You will hear when it sound right, or consult a chart.

Drop C tuning is the same as drop D, but with all the strings, including the newly tuned D, dropped down an additional whole step to C. Since all strings are tuned down as well, the same rule applies.

For drop C#, like in BVB's Perfect Weapon, you're tuning the D down an additional half step, or one fret, to C#, from a drop C tuning. So, the same rule applies, just add an extra fret to make it 2-3 frets down from the 4th string on bass and 6th on guitar.

Very best regards,

Rick

PS, You can also start in, lets say... Ionian and finish in the same position in Aolian. Same goes for Dorian , and finish in the same position in Ionian on the remaining strings, but it won't be sequential. You'd really be playing the relative minor, missing the first D. Same thing, just different starting point, with a note missing. It's gonna sound a little odd if you're playing seconds, but it is in the same key. You can see this on the 9th fret in the key of C. This will work with all the modes, just make sure the rest ofthe mode is in the right position. But, finishing 1-2 frets down will be less confusing to your ear.

[RickHavok]

Originally Posted by Dsmalls

Well, to be perfectly honest, the scales don't actually change just because you changed your tuning. The notes will remain the same, musically speaking. C major has the same notes in standard tuning as in any other tuning.

To solve your confusion you need to return to standard tuning, learn where the musical notes lie on your fretboard. Learn about basic music "theory." That's in quotes because this stuff is not theory it's essential. Learn a C major scale. C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C

Once you have that down, tune down to CGCF, play a C major scale again, then you will realize that the proper notes have all shifted.

Bottom line: learning about music will solve your problems. A simple fretboard diagram of a ionian mode isn't going to do you ANY good.

Smalls,

Most songs in drop tunings use the open string as a root, or tonic note, for the chord, or song. It's valid, even in classical music, and has a specific purpose. As you said, learning your instrument better would teach you this. See my other post for an explanation.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it wrong. You practice music, like you practice medicine. It's an art, not a science. There is always something to be learned. When you think you know it all, you're screwed. Plato basically said that in his account of Socrates, "I know that I know nothing". Smart guy. Pythagoras organized music in the same way we use it today. I guess those guys knew a little something.

[groooooove]

whats with all the weird interpretations of what modes are popping up lately?

[RickHavok]

Originally Posted by Freddels

+1000

I just don't get why people are doing this when they haven't mastered the conventional tuning yet.

He didn't say he hadn't mastered conventional tuning. He asked what the modes would be like with drop tunings, which I answered in detail. I also addressed a post similar to yours. Which, by the way, was of no help what so ever.

Try to master understanding that he's tuning down to achieve a pedal tone that's lower than low E.

[RickHavok]

Originally Posted by groooooove

whats with all the weird interpretations of what modes are popping up lately?

I don't know, but a mode is nothing more than a scale starting and ending on a different note. Since the bass guitar, and guitar, are made so you have access 1-2 octaves vertically, within the space of 5 frets, modes apply differently, as movable patterns that are used to modulate, or stayin the same key while moving around the neck.

This reply is not necessarily meant for this poster, but anyone who doesn't understand modal patterns, which any professional guitarist or bassist should.

Rawk!

[RickHavok]

Finally, keep up the good work Chris, and contact me if you need anything.

-Rick

[Angus]

Wow, great attitude.

Digging up a 4 year old thread to provide a misguided explanation of a simple concept is not progress.

Let's let dead threads stay dead.