The Drummer hangs on my timing

elroyjetsn · #1 03-24-2010, 09:20 AM

The drummer in our band watches my fingering during many songs to sync up his timing. I've been asked to hold back on fills for that reason. Several times he's changed tempo on us because of my fills. Both of us are older and new to playing in a band environment.

We keep reminding him that he's the timekeeper, but in the meantime...

Any suggests?

Thanks,

()smoke() · #2 03-24-2010, 09:27 AM

you might tap your foot and ask him to look at your foot for cues instead while he works on his own inner time...

i've played with drummers who've said they watch my right foot in certain sections...this would allow you to play fills without his objection while he learns to take other cues when he needs some reinforcement

Nashrakh · #3 03-24-2010, 09:27 AM

Maybe play with your back turned to him so he can't look at your fretboard?

Might be hard for him at first (for you too, if you dig eye contact to band mates), but I think after some practice he has to concentrate on other things than watching your fingers.

JimmyM · #4 03-24-2010, 09:30 AM

it is everyone's responsibility to keep time, not just the drummer's. but if the drummer can't keep time, i have to ask what his function is if not that.

topper · #5 03-24-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

you might tap your foot and ask him to look at your foot for cues instead while he works on his own inner time...

Good advice. Or bop up and down and have him watch your body.

Of course, they could just be trying to get you to play fewer fills...

Gord_oh · #6 03-24-2010, 09:33 AM

a drummer should be a time keeping machine.
granted the bass player and drummer do work together,
but you should be syncing up to him...not the other way around.
sounds like he just needs to break that habit.

ColinGWood · #7 03-24-2010, 09:38 AM

Yea the drummer should definitely be setting the pace, and listening with a good ear if you are writing riffs or originals.

Nothing worse than a drummer who can not only not keep time, but also doesn't understand what the music *needs* rather than just keep the same ole beat goin

JimmyM · #8 03-24-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord_oh

a drummer should be a time keeping machine.
granted the bass player and drummer do work together,
but you should be syncing up to him...not the other way around.
sounds like he just needs to break that habit.

i don't know if i fully agree with that. a lot of drummers will lead you through the path to hell if you don't keep an eye on them. if i had done that on my gig last night, every song we played last night would have ended twice as fast as it started. for some reason our drummer was shot out of a cannon last night.

rpsands · #9 03-24-2010, 10:20 AM

Time keeping is a group activity but if he loses you when you do fills, I would suggest you:

Practice doing fills with him alone, where you do fills and he keeps the tempo and he does fills and you keep the tempo, and where he does fills and you drop out.

I would suggest that it is very possible that your timing on fills is not as good as you think it is and he's watching you because you drag or rush them. It's totally possible I'm wrong there, but I've had that experience myself.

Either way: You guys need to work together alone as a rhythm section if you're not perfectly tight. Play all the songs all the way through without guitars/distortion hiding mistakes and see how you do.

elroyjetsn · #10 03-24-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Good advice. Or bop up and down and have him watch your body.

Of course, they could just be trying to get you to play fewer fills...

Ha! Yah, fills! Not my strongpoint for sure.

elroyjetsn · #11 03-24-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

you might tap your foot and ask him to look at your foot for cues instead while he works on his own inner time...

I'll try that. Coming from guitar, i've formed a bad habit of keeping time with the strumming hand. Been trying to xfer over to foot-tapping. Seems that swaying is easier since the foot has no momentum to help out. My foot switches to backbeat sometimes on me.

Chupacabra · #12 03-24-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elroyjetsn

I'll try that. Coming from guitar, i've formed a bad habit of keeping time with the strumming hand. Been trying to xfer over to foot-tapping. Seems that swaying is easier since the foot has no momentum to help out. My foot switches to backbeat sometimes on me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlrTsIFUf_c is a nifty little idea for improving your timing. You can apply it to whatever style you play (not just the mambo idea in the vid) If you're both relatively new players, it's probably just a case of practicing more for your drummer to improve.

MatticusMania · #13 03-24-2010, 11:04 AM

Have your drummer practice to a metronome. Im surprised this hasnt been mentioned yet.

Setebos · #14 03-24-2010, 11:24 AM

Suggest him to have a look at Billy Ward's DVD "Big Time". Is a very good approach to help dealing with tempo. I like his stuff and feel is good to look at even for non drummers.

He should not be following you. He should be able to follow himself

The same thing goes for the rest of the band.

mark107 · #15 03-24-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elroyjetsn

The drummer in our band watches my fingering during many songs to sync up his timing. I've been asked to hold back on fills for that reason. Several times he's changed tempo on us because of my fills. Both of us are older and new to playing in a band environment.

We keep reminding him that he's the timekeeper, but in the meantime...

Any suggests?

Thanks,

Get a better drummer. A good drummer is key, and based on what you are saying, you need a better drummer. Life is too short to play with drummers who are that clueless.

Rocker949 · #16 03-24-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark107

Get a better drummer. A good drummer is key, and based on what you are saying, you need a better drummer. Life is too short to play with drummers who are that clueless.

+1

Pat C. · #17 03-24-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark107

Get a better drummer. A good drummer is key, and based on what you are saying, you need a better drummer. Life is too short to play with drummers who are that clueless.

Could do this.

Or, if you want to help him, turn your back as a practice exercise for him. He needs to listen, not watch. Is it possible that you're not loud enough for him to hear you clearly? Or maybe it's not volume, but clarity...a mid boost or more treble may help a little. Something to consider.

And what type of fills are being played that he can't follow them? Maybe I'm dullard with my playing, but I don't think even the most syncopated, over-the-bar, seemingly out of time fill I've ever played has thrown the drummer off. Or maybe I've just been lucky to play with good drummers.

Another possibility - maybe your fills are rushed, or otherwise slightly out of time, and you don't' realize it? Record some of your practices and you should be able to pick out what's going on. If you're both inexperienced with playing in an ensemble then it'll be good ear training for both of you.

fenderfunker · #18 03-24-2010, 04:54 PM

I always thought that to be a functioning human, you need to, at least, be able to count to 4. How come so many drummers (dramas) think of themselves as musicians, without this most basic ability?

elroyjetsn · #19 03-24-2010, 07:42 PM

I think it's the lift-offs that throw him. I'll just have to try turning aside on a few songs so he'll listen more carefully instead of watching finger positions.

David1234 · #20 03-24-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat C.

... turn your back as a practice exercise ... Record some of your practices ... pick out what's going on.

Brilliant.

Alternatively for a bit of fun, play a few songs purely by left-hand hammering and just wiggle your right fingers as fast as you can in the air til the drummer learns to sync with ears instead of eyes...