Em7 scale?

dan1215 · #1 07-08-2008, 04:04 PM

can anyone help me out with this? thanks!

D.Don · #2 07-08-2008, 04:05 PM

http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord...-note-printer/

D.Don

I play the bass · #3 07-08-2008, 04:06 PM

well, what in particular? Do you need tabs? If not, just take your E maj and flat the 3 and 7. Done.

DRay521 · #4 07-08-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I play the bass

well, what in particular? Do you need tabs? If not, just take your E maj and flat the 3 and 7. Done.

Unless you want natural minor, then you have to flat your 6 too. The scale mentioned above would be your E Dorian. Also works great over minor. Gotta love that Natural 13.

I play the bass · #5 07-08-2008, 04:20 PM

Hey thanks! I tried to help someone out, and got helped out myself. I edited it, and was about to erase it,because I wasnt 100% sure. Guess my second guessing was warranted.

CapnSev · #6 07-08-2008, 04:20 PM

Ahh Dorian and Mixolydian... They fit over just about anything don't they?

ryco · #7 07-08-2008, 04:39 PM

Which E minor scale would you prefer? There's more than one minor scale.

Aeolian (aka Natural Minor), Dorian, Phrygian, Harmonic, Melodic, Pentatonic, Blues, BeBop?

DocBop · #8 07-08-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnSev

Ahh Dorian and Mixolydian... They fit over just about anything don't they?

Err no.... Mixolydian has a major 3rd not a minor 3rd so one of the two main chord quality notes is wrong.

Simple answer to OP question is any scale with a flat 3rd and flat 7th. Now they all have different color tones. The a better answer you need to know how the Emi7 is functioning such as....

i in minor (aeolian)
II in major (dorian)
III in major (Phrygian)
iv in minor
vi in major (locrian)

Could be a chord sub such as iii or vi for a I major chord. Those are a few ways it may be functioning.

jayarroz · #9 07-08-2008, 04:54 PM

E F# G A B C D

Bassist4Life · #10 07-08-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan1215

can anyone help me out with this? thanks!

Without context, I tend to see a m7 chord as "two" or the "dorian mode".

E Dorian (2nd mode of D major)

E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E

I have really come to accept that with music, there are no "rules". You can do anything you want. Of course, everyone will have their own opinion about how it sounds. I listen to a lot of music that might be considered "out there". I like it. It's not right or wrong, just different.

Peace & Music,
Joe

mutedeity · #11 07-08-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan1215

can anyone help me out with this? thanks!

Em7 is generally considered a chord rather than a scale. Also it is advisable to write it as emin7 to avoid any ambiguity.

E2daGGurl · #12 07-08-2008, 05:34 PM

From my point of view, Jayarroz wrote out what most would typically called the Em7 scale. Yes, it's a chord name, but it can also be a scale, and people who don't know the Greek modes use the chord names instead.

I don't think it's ever advisable to write the E as a small e, but most people would understand you either way. Personally, I never write Emin7 - takes too long.

mutedeity · #13 07-08-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Without context, I tend to see a m7 chord as "two" or the "dorian mode".

E Dorian (2nd mode of D major)

E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E

I have really come to accept that with music, there are no "rules". You can do anything you want. Of course, everyone will have their own opinion about how it sounds. I listen to a lot of music that might be considered "out there". I like it. It's not right or wrong, just different.

Peace & Music,
Joe

Huh? a min7 chord will be formed as a tertian harmony over any scale that has the intervals [1,b3,5,b7] or any scale that has the enharmonics of those intervals. I don't know how it would be assumed that it must be dorian. Even in diatonic context the first scale you would assume it to originate from, all things being equal, would be aeolian since it is the implied to be the tonal centre for a minor "key". Even at that I think it would be making a big assumption just to think aeolian every time you hear a min7 chord.

jayarroz · #14 07-08-2008, 05:35 PM

remember when it was - for minor and ^ well triangle for major!!!

mutedeity · #15 07-08-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E2daGGurl

From my point of view, Jayarroz wrote out what most would typically called the Em7 scale. Yes, it's a chord name, but it can also be a scale, and people who don't know the Greek modes use the chord names instead.

I don't think it's ever advisable to write the E as a small e, but most people would understand you either way. Personally, I never write Emin7 - takes too long.

I think you are confusing e minor and emin7, there might be some confusion between a tertian triad, but the 7 clearly indicates a tertian tetrad. Now unless you want to make the argument that 4 notes forms a scale, there is a great deal of difference.

Martin Bormann · #16 07-08-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassist4Life

Without context, I tend to see a m7 chord as "two" or the "dorian mode".

E Dorian (2nd mode of D major)

E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E

I have really come to accept that with music, there are no "rules". You can do anything you want. Of course, everyone will have their own opinion about how it sounds. I listen to a lot of music that might be considered "out there". I like it. It's not right or wrong, just different.

Peace & Music,
Joe

It's not a dorian mode at all. The ii7 chord is a chord built with notes from the major scale. I understand that you want to find parallels, but let me simplify it for you. A major scale is not an Ionian mode. They are by sheer coincidence enharmonic with one another. It's best not to associate one system with another.

My the way, the "rule" to analysis of music is whichever is most logical and least confusing is probably right. Confusing two different systems of music isn't logical and because you're forcing yourself to ignore the "modal formula" of the church modes, you're definitely making it confusing.

Codger · #17 07-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan1215

can anyone help me out with this? thanks!

Not definitively. There is an assortment of scales that include the minor 7th chord intervallic relationships. All are correct within the right context.

mutedeity · #18 07-08-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E2daGGurl

From my point of view, Jayarroz wrote out what most would typically called the Em7 scale. Yes, it's a chord name, but it can also be a scale, and people who don't know the Greek modes use the chord names instead.

I don't think it's ever advisable to write the E as a small e, but most people would understand you either way. Personally, I never write Emin7 - takes too long.

Also, what you are saying here about writing a chord as emin7 being inadvisable is debatable. em7 is fairly easy to understand, the lower case e reaffirms that the triad is minor, although there could still be confusion over whether the m is lower or upper case. emin7 has no ambiguity at all, and removing ambiguity is what is important when writing chord symbols on charts. On the other hand Em7 looks like E major with a minor 7 which would be a dominant. Anyone that understands roman numerals for chords will see the upper case E as representing a major triad.

E2daGGurl · #19 07-08-2008, 06:24 PM

Hmmm. I have no idea what the conventions about this are, just that when someone says Em scale, they typically mean E to E, with a flatted iii. So, when someone says Em7 scale, I just think they mean replace Eb with D. Still has 8 notes. This may not be proper, but that's what I would take it to mean if someone said it to me (and people do). My jazz piano teacher used the term that way (this was awhile back, though - and I have no proof that he was using proper terms, but he did teach a bunch of people).

But I see what you're saying. OTOH, if you can have a pentatonic blues scale, you could, I suppose have a tetratonic scale? My point though, is that it is doubtful that that was what was meant.

The way I see it, if a song is written in Em7, it doesn't use an Eb, it uses a D and that's what I need to keep in mind to keep from sounding sucky. No different than if someone said E7. I would expect the other chords in the song to avoid things like Ebmaj7 or Eb, etc.

Anyway, it's not uncommon for some to say their song is in Em7 (emin7) in an effort to communicate the notes that Jayarroz listed. When people are learning to improvise solos on sax or whatever, they're often taught that kind of terminology, and to use those notes while everyone else plays parts of Em7 and the bass walks 1, 3b, 4, 5, 7b). I think that's called the relative minor pentatonic scale, but frankly, I don't know anyone who uses those terms (except here on this board).

It may not be properly a scale, but if someone says Em7 scale, that's what I'd think they meant.

E2daGGurl · #20 07-08-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutedeity

Also, what you are saying here about writing a chord as emin7 being inadvisable is debatable. em7 is fairly easy to understand, the lower case e reaffirms that the triad is minor, although there could still be confusion over whether the m is lower or upper case. emin7 has no ambiguity at all, and removing ambiguity is what is important when writing chord symbols on charts. On the other hand Em7 looks like E major with a minor 7 which would be a dominant. Anyone that understands roman numerals for chords will see the upper case E as representing a major triad.

That's cool with me. I'll switch when I post here and appreciate the heads-up and the reasoning, thanks.