Embarrasing question about keys and scales...

[Chandler Bing]

Painfully embarrasing is more like it. Ive been playing guitar since 83, and bass on and off for the same, and Im pretty good at both. Here's the embarrasing part though, I know absolutley nothing about keys...or scales for that matter. My fingers are obviously overly trained, and I can listen to a song and figure it out (especially on bass...guitar I may need tab), but when someone says "lets play this in the key of E or A flat" I just kinda go "uh.....".
My brother is an avid guitar player...and has only played for a few years...he picks up my bass the other day and starts playing with a song on the radio..likes he's been doing it for years. When asked how, he just said "well its in (blah blah) key, so I just play a scale in that key and modify it.
Someone please point me in the right direction for actually learning keys/scales ect. I've winged it/faked it long enough. TIA.

[Earthday]

Well it's really pretty simple, but there's a lot to it - which you can't learn all at once is the true answer.

If getting a teacher is an option for you, that is the best one by far.

If not, search the web for music theory sites. You should very easily be able to find the basics online. There's some very educational forums, and links to great sites right at the top of this board. Check the stickied posts at the top. Just remember to take it one step at a time and dont try to learn too much all at once.

If you don't know the notes of the fretboard, make that priority one. Keep in mind that's something you can practice without actually playing, or even without your instrument. After that take a few days and familiarize yourself with major scales (There are some excellent ways to practice scales in the stickied threads. Check out Pacman's method). Then take a few days and apply your knowledge to what you already know, then move on and do the same with minor scales, take a few days and learn how they relate, apply it etc.

Since you've been playing so long I'd say you'll find that you already know most of this, you just don't really know the terminology for it and how it all relates. The information is out there, just pace yourself, and make sure you understand, and understand why for each subject (scales, chords, keys etc) before you move on. It is very very worth it to learn these concepts and learn them thoroughly, and since you already have experience with music, you should be able to relate it all to what you know as you learn.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by Earthday

If you don't know the notes of the fretboard, make that priority one.

+1

--Get a chart or poster that has all the notes on the fretboard and put it where you can see it when you practice.
--Make a list of some songs you already know how to play.
--Play each song on your bass (or guitar) and find the root note of the key the song is in (it's the one note that you keep going back to on the fretboard that seems to define the song, and the song usually ends on that note, as well).
--Look up that note on your chart and you now know the letter name of the key the song is in.
--Keep doing this for many songs and you will begin to automatically memorize all the notes on the neck.

The next time someone says to play Sabbath's "Paranoid" you can go staight to the E, Zep's "No Quarter" to the D and Rush's "La Villa Strangiatto" go to A.

[Rumblestiltzkin]

Take a few lessons from a local teacher in your town, ask to learn how to read bass clef. Learn what the intervals of a major scale are and what they look like written down. Take a riff you know how to play in one position and play it in a completly different position with different fingering.

[Drucocu]

I cant read notes too, but its very (VERY) necessary for me, to know, in what key I'm playing, and where each note is located on the fretboard.
I'd say, its not really necessary to be able to read music, but knowing what you're playing is!

absolutely 1st priority!!!

my .02€

[Jazzdogg]

It can be challenging to progress beyond the basics without a solid grasp of the concepts endemic to the "Circle of Fifths."

As you study the circle of fifths, you'll be able to jump-start your musical education with information vital to all bassists, including the major and relative minor keys, intervals, the number of sharps or flats in each key, scale construction, etc.

When it comes to books, I encourage you to look at the way a single topic (like the circle of fifths) is presented by several authors and select only books that are congruent with your learning style. After all, it doesn't matter how well the author understands the subject matter unless they are able to present it in ways that are comprehensible to you.

Good luck!

[Chandler Bing]

Ok great tips guys, thanx. I'll start with these. -Preesh!

[hublocker]

Well, I have a bad ear and zero talent for copying songs, still after over 40 years of playing.

But I can play now.

The very first thing I did when I bought my first guitar (January 1968) was memorize the notes on the neck from a chart.

The same paperback book described what keys were and described what made the 3 most important chords in a key.

I learned to play out of a deep interest and desire to do it over any talent for it at all.

[ryco]

Dig around in these. Maybe you'll find something helpful.

http://www.activebass.com/

^^ go to "hot tools" in far right column and hit "Bass Scale Finder". Also check out "hot scale" just below it. Dig around here - lots to do and explore for all levels

http://www.cyberschoolofbass.com/

^^ same here. Lots of lessons

http://www.studybass.com/

^^this place has lessons and tools like fretboard printers


http://www.jazzbooks.com/miva/docume...of_fourths.pdf

^^here's a good primer on keys and how to idenfy them and what notes are in each - like yer bro was tryin' to tell you. Go to the home page of this site and look at the rest of the stuff in the free handbook. It relates most of the info to jazz, but the info transfers to all genres - it's all made up of the same stuff.

Here's some tools:

http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord...-note-printer/

http://www.cyberfretbass.com/first-f...ames/index.php

[sixway]

Learning scale patterns, and their fingerings, is another must-do part of your learning list. Once you know patterns for various scales, you'll be able to move them to different frets. The only exception to this "rule" is scale patterns for open strings, but you'll notice they have patterns as well.

As you know, scales are made up of whole-tones, and half-tones. Depending on where the half-tones fall in the scale makes it major, minor, pentatonic, etc. For example, the major scale half-tones in the key of "C" naturally occur between 3-4, and 7-8. Starting on the 1, or "root" note, the scale is as follows:

whole, whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. In notes:
C D E F G A B C (no sharps, flats)
A B C# D E F# G# A (Sharps to raise whole-tones)
Bb C D Eb F G A Bb (Flats to lower whole-tones)

Other keys as you can see need sharps or flats to put the half-tone in the 3-4, and 7-8 position, for a MAJOR scale.

In the Natural Minor scale the half-tones fall between 2-3, and 6-7.
The Pentatonic, and Blues scales are variations of the Natural Minor Scale.

You've been playing all of these, and more, all these years, and probably never knew it! But knowing scale forms allows you to play in whatever key is called out to play in; you're just going to start the form on a different fret.

It helps after that to know the 1-3-5 chord positions in the scales as well.

Try to find a simple scale book that lists all of the scales, with their names ( it doesn't hurt to know that names like Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian, etc., are scale names, not those Greek sisters down the street), and the notes, or half-tones indicated.

Once you're comfortable with the basic scale fingerings, and the sound of the scale, learn how to play the same scale with different fingerings on different strings. The same note on a different string at times is better suited for that spot in the song...

What's really cool though, is you'll find that you'll learn the scale "formulas" and names to aspects of music that you've been playing for years! Good Luck!

Ian

[Chandler Bing]

ryco and six, thanks. VERY helpful! Thanx to all...

[Kael]

Go grab a keyboard. Seriously. Even if you have zero intention of learning to play it, it is far easier to grasp theory on piano/keys. Everything is easily seen under your fingers. You don't need anything pricey. A pawn shop special will suffice.

[ryco]

Here's a key signature tool I swiped from "The dark side" of TB.
If you have theory questions or musings wander over to the DB "Theory" forum.

http://www.circle-of-fifths.net/learn.html

Cool little tutorial on the wokings of the circle of fifths; it's relevence and how it works. A test follows each tutorial.

Well written, very straight forward.

The final is tougher than I thought! I need to bone up a little!