Experienced player clueless of theory

[SquareWaves]

I've been playing bass for over 10 years and in bands I've been in it's never been a problem to not have any real knowledge of scales or music theory. I'd like to have more confidence in my ability to write music as opposed to giving random riffs to drummers or guitarists to arrange. Is there a way of learning fundamentals without just relearning the instrument entirely?

[longfinger]

The fundamentals are not instrument specific. They apply to all instruments.

[m0ranwad]

I don't see why you'd have to relearn the instrument in order to incorporate theory. Studying a bit of theory, would rather, make sense of the things you already know (I.e. what sounds good to your experienced ear).

[kirkdickinson]

SquareWaves,

Do you play only by ear? If someone said "We are in the Key of C, play a 1-3-4 Progression" would you know what to play?

[kevibass]

get a basic bass/theory book/dvd whatever and dive in. i think you'll be surprised at what you already intuitively know. but you'll begin to be able to understand more muso speak and contribute on a different level.
there is lots of material out there.
good luck.

[SquareWaves]

Originally Posted by kirkdickinson

SquareWaves,

Do you play only by ear? If someone said "We are in the Key of C, play a 1-3-4 Progression" would you know what to play?

I play only by ear. I'd just start crying.

[miles'tone]

I was in a similar situation myself and can whole-heartedly recommend you have a look at Carol Kaye's method of learning.
It's all about the chords, easy to pick up and use in a very musical way from the off.
It will defo help you to make sense of what you already intuitively know.

http://www.carolkaye.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

Also, I've picked up alot of cool info from this Dude's free lessons:
http://scottsbasslessons.com/

[kirkdickinson]

What mile'tone said...

You can get started immediately and learn to play the major scale. Each tone in the scale has a scale degree 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 with 8 being the octave of the 1. Wherever you start the 1 is the key you are in.

You probably already know how to play a 1-5-8 power chord, or at least play those notes in a bass line. You probably know how to go from the 1 to the lower 5th like country or bluegrass guys use that combo a lot and it works in any type of music.

I think when you start learning some theory, you will add a new vocabulary to the knowledge you already have. It will be extremely valuable to communicate with your bandmates.

Do you know the names of the notes on the fretboard?

[5ubWooferDo9]

Most basic music theory can be found online. If you know the note names on the bass I would look up major scale theory.
When you have learnt how scales are built, you will be able to start learning about other concepts such as chords and modes.

[m0ranwad]

Originally Posted by miles'tone

Also, I've picked up alot of cool info from this Dude's free lessons:
http://scottsbasslessons.com/

+1

Scott is a great guy, classically trained by some notable bass players. His videos helped me tons.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes Scott is great, however, a little advanced. IMO you need to start at the beginning. Here is the beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olBnC2nxCNw Edit - here is the correct site. LOL yes - a little prayer would not hurt that much. Sorry about that guys. Here is what I meant to leave http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder...20Advanced.pdf

First 30 pages are a start. The next 60 pages can keep you occupied for the rest of your life.

Eat this elephant one bite at a time. Too much too soon will just make you sick, and you will once again loose interest and be no better off than when you started, probably just a little more confused. Thirty minutes a day should do it. And ask specific questions here.

www.studybass.com
The book, Bass Guitar for Dummies. Start on page one and speed read till you have to slow down.
The articles at this site will give you some idea of how we use that theory. http://www.ibreathemusic.com/browse/...all&homepage=A

Good luck and have fun.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Here is the beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olBnC2nxCNw

Unless I am missing something, you seem to have posted the wrong link here Malcolm.

[SquareWaves]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Unless I am missing something, you seem to have posted the wrong link here Malcolm.

Yeah I was ready for that start and then just got really confused.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by SquareWaves

Yeah I was ready for that start and then just got really confused.

Maybe you are supposed to pray for guidance.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by SquareWaves

I've been playing bass for over 10 years and in bands I've been in it's never been a problem to not have any real knowledge of scales or music theory. I'd like to have more confidence in my ability to write music as opposed to giving random riffs to drummers or guitarists to arrange. Is there a way of learning fundamentals without just relearning the instrument entirely?

I'll +1 studybass.com for the most basic introduction that's bass-oriented.

I learned to read music back in high school when I played trombone and some years ago learned what the notes were named on the 4 string up to about the 5th fret, but otherwise never learned the "facts of music" as Jeff Berlin refers to it.

Fortunately, my gigging career was ended not too long ago by injuries and hearing damage and I never want to go back. With no more crowds of people yelling and fighting, shoving everything they can get up their nose, in their lungs and down their throats all over the place, I finally can study and play in peace. Hopefully, I'll actually learn something about music now.

So far, I haven't had to relearn anything in terms of technique or general ear training, etc., like fingering patterns and so on. At this point, it's just been reviewing where the notes are and starting to memorize what notation on the bass clef corresponds to what on the fingerboard.

But like I said, it's all supplementary at this point. And the chances are pretty good I'm going to learn a lot of other new stuff too...

LS

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by fearceol

Unless I am missing something, you seem to have posted the wrong link here Malcolm.

Yep, sure did. The one I wanted to leave is http://www.billygreen.pwp.blueyonder...20Advanced.pdf

Thanks for catching this.

[Mushroo]

Originally Posted by SquareWaves

I've been playing bass for over 10 years and in bands I've been in it's never been a problem to not have any real knowledge of scales or music theory. I'd like to have more confidence in my ability to write music as opposed to giving random riffs to drummers or guitarists to arrange. Is there a way of learning fundamentals without just relearning the instrument entirely?

The best way to learn, in my opinion, is from someone you know and trust who has this knowledge, such as: your bass teacher, a theory instructor at your school/college, the guitarist or keyboardist in your band, etc.

Do you know anyone in this category? If not, good to do some networking, I am sure there must be musicians in your home town who can read music and understand theory. If you live in a small town and there aren't any bass teachers, I bet you can learn what you need to get started from a good piano or guitar instructor. Music theory is the same on all instruments; there are no magic/secret notes/chords that only certain instruments can play!

In the meantime, the foundation of music theory is the degrees of the major scale: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. If you can count to 8, then you can understand music theory. If you start on C, then C is 1, D is 2, E is 3, F is 4, G is 5, A is 6, B is 7, C is 8 (which is the same as 1 an "octave" higher). Watch The Sound of Music and learn the song "Doe a Deer" by ear, and you'll be off to a good start with internalizing the sound of the major scale.

[mambo4]

"Eowyn's" Theory Basics PDF linked in my signature below is a good solid overview of theory.
[edit] nevermind, someone already linked

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by SquareWaves

I've been playing bass for over 10 years and in bands I've been in it's never been a problem to not have any real knowledge of scales or music theory. I'd like to have more confidence in my ability to write music as opposed to giving random riffs to drummers or guitarists to arrange. Is there a way of learning fundamentals without just relearning the instrument entirely?

Just re-read your post. Writing music - Here is a reply about composing songs I have stored in a word file. It may help.

Decide on a scale. Yes just one. I sing in D if this is going to be my song I'd write it with D scale notes for the melody and chords from the key of D will give me the harmony. If you do not have any vocalist in mind C is easy - no sharps or flats. OK I want to write a Pop, Rock or Country song so Major scale and major chords will be a good starting point. If you were writing a song for horns, saxophones, etc. one of the flat scale would probably be best? Why? Those instruments like the flat keys. My point pick; a key that is best for the instruments that will be used.

• Decide on a chord progression. Yes one of the cookie cutter progressions will be fine to get started. You can flesh it out later. Since this is my song I'd use a I IV V7 I or D, G, A7, D progression. Some like vi-IV-I-V7, it's your song use the progression you like.

• Now the rest is chicken or egg. I chose lyrics, chords then melody. You may want to go melody then chords and leave lyrics for last. It's your song do it the way you want. I'll give the lyrics first method.

• Get the story into verse format. Four line verse is a good format. You will need three verses and a chorus. Chorus is the hook, what you want them singing tomorrow. Rhyme or not up to you.

• Place your cookie cutter progression over the lyric words. This is my first draft approach. Start the verse with the I chord - you are at rest to start so the I tonic chord makes since. To get some interest into the chord progression we need to get some tension into the progression so move to the IV chord near the ending of the first line. Continue with the IV into the second line and near the end of the second line bring in the V7 chord. This increases the tension and acts as a climax. Since we have reached climax quickly end the 2nd line with the I chord. You moved the first two lines from I (rest) to IV (tension) to V7 (climax) and then resolved back to the I chord and rest. Repeat this for the 3rd and 4th line. I like to get two V-I cadences into my four line verse. Might as well use that same format for the other verses and what the heck use it for the chorus - remember you are doing a first draft. Verse format -- one way -- first two lines bring up a thought then the 3rd and 4th line of the verse react to what was said in the first two lines and then bring that thought to a close so verse number two can bring up another thought. Notice that was my I IV V I, if using something other than that, no problem, just remember a chord progression builds tension and brings you to a climax, then resolves back to the tonic chord. The first two lines of a verse brings up a thought, the second two lines in the verse react to what was done in the first two lines, i.e. call and response is an example.

• Play that progression and move the chords around to where they match the lyric words. Move them a little one way or the other - your ear will tell you. If you are at a climax chord you need to be at a climax word.

• Now it's melody time. I go to the keyboard for this - at any rate - one melody note per lyric word. Ma-ry and Lit-tle will take two melody notes.

• Which notes. Chord tones. The chord's pentatonic will give you three chord tones and two safe passing notes - more than enough to build a melody that will harmonize with the chords you are using. Yes your melody notes and your chord notes should share like notes - when they do you harmonize both the melody and the chord line. I find knowing the progression first then finding melody notes from within the chords lets me keep the chord progression's journey from rest, tension, climax, resolution and return to rest the verse should travel intact. Now I only have to find harmonizing notes for my melody. Here is what I do. Recite the lyric word and see what chord tone sounds best, i.e. over the C chord you've got the C, E or G notes - and let's say the word in question is "now" say now and listen to the C note - what do you think? Try the E note, then the G note. I'd pick the C or E the G does not work for me. Which one sounds best to you? That's how I build the melody - what sounds good over the lyrics. What flows over several words - a phrase. Remember to pause - gotta get that rhythm into the song a line of notes is noise, a melody that flows and has pauses so the melody can breath is your goal. We speak in phrases, your song should be sung in phrases. Here is Mary Had A Little Lamb in C; notice it's one melody note per lyric word:

• That will get you a lead sheet, treble clef, chords and lyrics. A bass clef would be nice or just leave it as a lead sheet and let the bassist compose the bass line - how the chord tones are played - as he/she feels best.
Sit back open a bottle of your favorite beverage and start on fleshing out your first draft.

That is just about all that is necessary to write a simple song.

Have fun.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by longfinger

The fundamentals are not instrument specific. They apply to all instruments.

Even the advanced stuff isn't instrument specific. The only thing that is instrument specific is related to the technic.

so my recommandation is a very complete book about music theory without the words "for bass" in the title.