Feel like giving up bass, someone please help

[Ozzel]

I play bass in my church as a hobby, basically. I picked it up on my own and taught myself to play, and I think I get by well enough for my church. Or I used to. You see, several months ago we brought in a new pastor who demands musical excellence. He brought in a new minister of music who's nothing short of amazing, and has hired professional musicians and singers to help us bring the music to that "new level." Our praise music has improved a lot and it's been wonderful being a part of it, but l have found myself struggling to keep up. I'm not a pro, I have a full time job, two young children, a house to take care of so obviously not a lot of time to practice my bass. So what I do is, when I have time to practice, I just practice the songs we are doing that week. It's basically just memorization of the song. I have a pretty good ear, but that only helps so much when you don't know theory and you're not good at scales. And the amount of notes I can memorize is limited...if I forget which note is coming up next I tend to get lost and hit the wrong note. It's frustrating to say the least, and I think I might be wearing out my welcome on that stage.

So with all that said (sorry so long), what can you recommend to someone who doesn't have a lot of time to devote to practice. I can give about 1 hour a night for three nights a week, maybe four. I think that simply memorizing the songs is not the right approach. I really should be learning the scales forward and backward, right? What else can I do? Keep in mind, when we're on the stage there are no music stands, and I don't like playing with my eyes glued to the page anyway. I want to be able to play freely and with confidence and most importantly to be able to play the note that's coming up next, the note I hear in my head. I need to develop my pitch, right? Any help and advice given is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

[permadave]

Don't give up man! I would say memorize the songs for now but start with a theory book. This one is pretty easy to understand and it's what I use:

Harmony and Theory: A Comprehensive Source for All Musicians . I got it from Amazon but I'm sure you can get it anywhere.

After that I would say start learning the major scale in all keys then the various modes which is a lot easier than it sounds. I probably devote 20-30 min a day to it, which is all I have and I've gotten a lot better in the past 2 yrs or so.

[professor_bills]

I can sort of relate with you. Our band doesn't do any gigs but it still sux when I have no idea what I am suppose to be playin. Our guitard/lead singer seems to bring in a new song (sometimes more) every friday. Like you I do it all by the seat of my pants, I dont know scales or theory or anything like that. So it can be frustrating.
If you have a set list each week and have to play without the sheets in front of you I don't see much choice but to memorize the songs... Can you read music well enough to play what you read and does this minister of music (sounds like something from a Mel Brooks play) give you the sheet music for the bass or is it piano music that you need to adapt or do you just listen to a recording and figure your own bass lines out. If the latter is the case I think thats a lot to ask a non pro to do in one week That is if he's changing the song list weekly.
I say hang in there do your best but explain your concerns to this MoM. Perhaps if he realizes your winging most of it he might have some tips on how to do your part easily.

[Ozzel]

All the songs we play are ones for which the sheet music is available, except for a few of his own compositions. But the sheet music wouldn't do any good because he adapts the song to his own style. Plus, I don't like to have to depend on the sheet anyway. I like to look up, see the reaction of the congregation and enjoy myself. Our MoM is a great guy as well as a musical genius. He knows I'm not a pro and is always very encouraging. He actually likes my minimalist style which is basically a result of not knowing my instrument as well as I should. But, even though he likes me, he also has a job to do. He's kept me on so far, but if I keep hitting two or three wrong notes every other song, I'm afraid it'll be curtains for me. Thanks for your encouraging replies so far. I really don't want to give up.

[tswd]

Do you have recordings of the songs? Playing along with a recording is golden. You can listen to the other instruments to know when the changes are coming, which is much easier than trying to keep track of everything yourself.

You can break the songs up into pieces, such as chorus, verse, etc. Generally, you can get away with playing the same thing over each chorus, each verse, etc which limits how much you really memorize. It's kind of like learning the entire chorus as a riff. Then the entire verse as a riff. Then the song becomes a series of riffs.

With the limited amount of time you have, I'd spend most of the time practicing the songs. Do scales every now and then as finger exercises, but the most important thing is to get the songs right.

[Jimtoonz]

+1 for Permadave. Having some good foundational theory under your belt will help you know what to play when you "don't know what to play". If you are not skilled on the keyboard, buy an inexpensive one as a tool to go with your theory book(s). This will allow you to hear intervals and chords as you are learning about them. With the limited time you have right now, it might be valuable to spend as much or more time in this manner as you do playing your bass.

Be candid with your MoM about how you feel. If he is the good guy he seems to be, then he will respond positively to that. Also, let him know about the steps you are taking to broaden your knowledge. He may be able to share some of his own resources with you.

Most of all, HANG IN THERE. Don't quit if you love it. The knowledge and technique are all out there to be had in time and it's hard to find other things that can give you the same level of joy.

Best,

-J

[slapagroov]

Hey man, I'm kind of in the opposite situation. My wife is a music minister, and I help her run the band. We just moved to Bonita (near Naples) to work at a new church. We are really trying to help the band grow and improve. I can tell you that your MoM will appreciate that you are concerned with growing and trying to practice. That's hard to find.

Also, playing with the CD is a great start. It will help you memorize the tunes. The more you play it, the more it gets in your head and hands. As far as theory, I have a degree in music, but I know many great musicians that don't know a lick of theory. That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn it, but I think you should start with things that really help you. For example, many of the popular worship tunes out right now have very simple chord progressions. Even when they're embellished a bit, they very often are the same progressions. That helps me memorize songs much faster. If you get familiar with common progressions, then your ears can hear where many songs are going. Hope that helps.

[locolobo85]

Have to agree with the getting a little theory in there. At a minimum you need to know the major and minor scales and have the ability to move them up and down the fret board. This will start to unlock some of the mysteries and help you venture confidently off the root notes.

How is the music presented to you? Are you having to read the bass clef? If so, also spend some time on your sight reading.

[cloren]

dude, i was in the same boat as you. My dad is the music director at our church and when my brother (the original family bassist) left for college, he looked to me to fill his place. It was tough for about a year or so, because in addition to being new to the bass in general, I was new to reading chord charts! I was also playing with an amazing piano player who gave me dirty looks whenever i played a wrong note! I started with simple memorization of bass lines and was able to build onto them as the years progressed.

If I may digress, language acquisition is the same way. you don't learn Chinese by simply sitting in your room, practicing brush strokes hour after hour - you start with simple phrases and build from there. sure "wood shedding" is fast track to improvement, but it's not the only practice that's worthy!

I guess what I' trying to say is that you shouldn't minimilize your role in your church- you may not feel like you're performing on par (I've felt that way countless times in my musical career), but that just means you're recognizing that there is room for improvement - and that is a FANTASTIC thing and should be thought of as such.

Nearly all world religions talk about the virtue of humility and who better to understand that than us bass players?
As Michael Manring says 'higher cosciousness through lower frequencies.'

[Marcury]

Memorize the chord progressions of the songs first. If you know what the right root tone is in each measure then you always know at least one right note to play. Once you know that you can always also play the fifth of the chord and be right also. If you're not clear what I mean: the root tone is the note that the chord is named for and the fifth is (in 90% of all cases) either the note on the same fret one string lower or the note two frets higher on the string above. You can also play the octave of the root that's the two frets higher and two strings above. If you know the chord progression and can consistently hit those notes starting with the root or its octave on the first beat of each bar you will be less likely to get lost and every note should "sound' right.

From there learn the chord shapes for Major and Minor chords, up to the seventh. That's chord tones 1 (root), 3 (third), 5 (fifth) and 7 (seventh). Many bass lines consist only of those tones.

This will get you very far as it is. From there, yes learn theory and the relationship of chords and scales and how to play the scales. But if you can get the above together for each song without getting lost or hitting wrong notes it will clean up your playing considerably and improve your ear immensely.

[whizack]

I just started playing bass less than 6 months ago, I decided from the get go that I was going to "self-teach" the same way you've learned by learning songs by finger patterns and tabs... that didn't work out so well and I got really frustrated at how poor I was at playing anything that I hadn't spent hours practicing and memorizing notes/fret positions for.

I decided that wasn't good and went back to the basics and have just started learning about chord theory and scales. Let me tell you that learning the intervals, scales, scale modes, and chord progressions will turn your world upside down.

I find now that the more I learn about theory the more that ALL music makes sense, I have a fairly good ear for tone, but I can pick up the bass line to ALOT of songs just by dinking around with mixolydian scales in a I - IV - V progression.

That alone has really helped me with gaining confidence in playing and has given me more opportunities to experiment with fill patterns and lead-in notes to find my "style".

If learning at your own pace is your bag, I've found a few sites extremely useful: Study Bass and CyberFret Bass

Neither of those sites are going to be 100% as comprehensive as many of the books you might find out there, but the sites do have information that can get you started so you know what to look for in a book that can get you on the right track.

My wife is learning Guitar as well and I was recommended a book on musical theory written by Bruce Emery called "Music Principles for the Skeptical Guitarist". I highly recommend this book for learning about chord progressions and scales, surprisingly there is alot you can learn from this book that translates well to bass. This guy writes in a very casual manner that is easy to understand and he doesn't get caught up in alot of technical jargon until you understand it better.

Best of luck to you sir, I sincerely hope you don't give up on playing. Music is one of those things that no one can never take away from you and will always be your own.

[AlphaMale]

Originally Posted by Ozzel

I play bass in my church as a hobby, basically. I picked it up on my own and taught myself to play, and I think I get by well enough for my church. Or I used to. You see, several months ago we brought in a new pastor who demands musical excellence. He brought in a new minister of music who's nothing short of amazing, and has hired professional musicians and singers to help us bring the music to that "new level." Our praise music has improved a lot and it's been wonderful being a part of it, but l have found myself struggling to keep up. I'm not a pro, I have a full time job, two young children, a house to take care of so obviously not a lot of time to practice my bass. So what I do is, when I have time to practice, I just practice the songs we are doing that week. It's basically just memorization of the song. I have a pretty good ear, but that only helps so much when you don't know theory and you're not good at scales. And the amount of notes I can memorize is limited...if I forget which note is coming up next I tend to get lost and hit the wrong note. It's frustrating to say the least, and I think I might be wearing out my welcome on that stage.

So with all that said (sorry so long), what can you recommend to someone who doesn't have a lot of time to devote to practice. I can give about 1 hour a night for three nights a week, maybe four. I think that simply memorizing the songs is not the right approach. I really should be learning the scales forward and backward, right? What else can I do? Keep in mind, when we're on the stage there are no music stands, and I don't like playing with my eyes glued to the page anyway. I want to be able to play freely and with confidence and most importantly to be able to play the note that's coming up next, the note I hear in my head. I need to develop my pitch, right? Any help and advice given is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Your church and bass playing are two different things. Just because you can't play basketball with an Olympic basketball team doesn't mean you should quit.
But if you learn your major, natural minor, and pentatonic minor scale, learn the notes on the fretboard and then learn some arpeggios you'll pretty much be play whatever you want and it will still sound good.

[Luke73]

I have a house, a lovely wife, two wonderful children, and a demanding full time job Much the same as you I guess.

I practice for at least an hour each day in addition to band rehearsals and gigs. I'm sure with some careful time management you'll be able to find more time for practice.

One hour a day isn't too much to ask Set that aside as your dedicated practice time, and ask your family to understand that you need to be able to practice uninterrupted. Explain that it's important to you, and I'm sure you'll be right.

Additionally, it sounds like you're a good ear player - but it also sounds like in your situation understanding theory and learning to read would be beneficial.

If you don't have time to take a theory course - there are many good books on the subject. Take some time to do it, and incorporate a little reading practice into your daily practice routine. You'll be amazed how quickly you progress. Get a good music theory book and have it on your bedside table instead of a novel for bed time reading. I'm not kidding - read a few pages every night and you'll find your understanding grows each day.



Where there is a will, there is a way. You simply need to provide the will.

Good luck!

[Ozzel]

Thanks, everyone, for all the great suggestions and encouragement. I already bought a book on theory and I'm gonna start practicing scales as a new habit. I'm definitely not going to give up! Thanks again.

[basseddie]

Ozzel, dont give up, you are in a excellent position to learn.
If no one is complaining or giving you the look, you are probably doing ok. Some bands really dont expect a lot from the bass player, which means you can sit back a bit and learn.
Talk with the music minister and let him know how you feel, and ask what you need to do to improve.... this way he knows and can help.
I am lucky if I get to practice 2 hours a week, but I do what I can. If you can get 3 to 4 hours a week that is better than 1 or none.... I know everyone says an hour a day at least, but life just gets in the way.
Learning theory helps, and a little theory goes a long way.
I found getting a piece of paper and pen, and writting down the scales and figuring out where the chords originate from helped me understand a lot.
At this time you do not need to learn all the keys and scales, only the keys you play in. Learn were all the notes are on the fretboard, a few at a time.

[JjJosh]

Originally Posted by Ozzel

I play bass in my church as a hobby, basically. I picked it up on my own and taught myself to play, and I think I get by well enough for my church. Or I used to. You see, several months ago we brought in a new pastor who demands musical excellence. He brought in a new minister of music who's nothing short of amazing, and has hired professional musicians and singers to help us bring the music to that "new level." Our praise music has improved a lot and it's been wonderful being a part of it, but l have found myself struggling to keep up. I'm not a pro, I have a full time job, two young children, a house to take care of so obviously not a lot of time to practice my bass. So what I do is, when I have time to practice, I just practice the songs we are doing that week. It's basically just memorization of the song. I have a pretty good ear, but that only helps so much when you don't know theory and you're not good at scales. And the amount of notes I can memorize is limited...if I forget which note is coming up next I tend to get lost and hit the wrong note. It's frustrating to say the least, and I think I might be wearing out my welcome on that stage.

So with all that said (sorry so long), what can you recommend to someone who doesn't have a lot of time to devote to practice. I can give about 1 hour a night for three nights a week, maybe four. I think that simply memorizing the songs is not the right approach. I really should be learning the scales forward and backward, right? What else can I do? Keep in mind, when we're on the stage there are no music stands, and I don't like playing with my eyes glued to the page anyway. I want to be able to play freely and with confidence and most importantly to be able to play the note that's coming up next, the note I hear in my head. I need to develop my pitch, right? Any help and advice given is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

there are proper scale shapes online. dont ever give up.
maybe you could take a break from playing for your church and focus more on the theory and some scales and then, once you have studied more, go back to playing for your church

[jsutton414]

Just don't forget why you play! For MoM, or God? Sure your leading the congregation in worship but it's so much more than that. Look at the BIG picture. God looks at the heart, not the fretboard.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Ozzel

Thanks, everyone, for all the great suggestions and encouragement. I already bought a book on theory and I'm gonna start practicing scales as a new habit. I'm definitely not going to give up! Thanks again.

Surely you must have the time and the means to afford private lessons? For someone in your situation, even one hour-long lesson per week could be extremely beneficial, as a good teacher can guide you in ways that you might not know to do for yourself, can show you the things you most need to learn and how to learn them, can shorten your learning curve, can inspire self-confidence, and can show you how to continue to learn and develop productively on your own - when you're not in lessons.

I strongly urge you to consider taking private lessons...

MM