Fretboard Logic via Intervals, Scales and Chords. This is your one spot!

[Papa Dangerous]

***READER BEWARE. THERE MAY BE ERRORS! PLEASE READ COMMENTS!!****

****There are two sections for this post, this is section one, and section two is the first comment right below!****

FIRST: Let me thank everyone who has been giving such great insight, comments, and an overall more complete understanding of what I was trying to explain! Look for these cool cats in the comment section!

I have come across a few people asking about how to manipulate the fret board, how to memorize it, and all that good stuff. I hope this helps everyone out there who takes a read. I will start out as if you have no idea what I am talking about in regards to music and bass. If you just want to know the finer details of a use of intervals, then jump to the bottom!

*There is A LOT of information here, so do no overwhelm your self! Simply go through it, and if the theoretical stuff seems like it is too much, just jump down to the bottom and catch the interval portion to see the overall product. Then work your way back up, then down, up and then down, up and then down again. This is not something easily grasped right away if you never looked at it before!

The strings on a bass are tuned EADG, E to A is a 4th, A to D is a 4th, and D to G is a 4th. That is important because it lets us up know that a scale, or chord will always look the same. (Not that there are not multiple ways to play them, but a simple 1,3,5 closed position triad can always be played with one pattern)

So to start, I will make a reference point, list most of your common scales/formulas and move into chords, and the other good stuff (how to use the Fret Board)



In music, two of the most basic aspects are scales and chords. From the scale we know how to design the chord. A scale can be defined as a sequence of musical notes in ascending or descending order. There are main types of scales, diatonic and chromatic scales. Chords are a set of notes (based on a scale) that sound simultaneously. They can also be played separately (as you will see later on in this) and are called arpeggios. A sequence of chords is known as a chord progression, which is the basis of a song. Theory lays out a few certain progressive patterns that sound pleasing to the ear due to their sonic characters, and is notated on staff lines
The chord progressions are typically arranged in a specific pattern according to the key, and type of scale.
To start, we will look at scales, and what formula creates a certain scale. The most common scales are Major and minor, aka Ionian and Aeoleon respectively. There are other “scales” but they are referred to as modes.
So, the easiest way to start is with the Major scale, since the minor scale is built off of this model. The scale is designed by a certain pattern of steps and whole steps, and we count these steps to accurately reach the appropriate note in the scale. On a bass, from one fret to the next fret is counted as a half step, or a semi tone. Two consecutive frets are equal to a whole step, or a whole tone.

Let me first explain how to understand the formula, then the formula, and finally the list the scales using this formula. As mentioned above, from one fret to the next fret is a semi tone/half step. So C to C# (i.e. A string – 3rd fret to A string – 4th fret) is a half step, and C# to D (i.e. A string 4th fret to A string 5th fret) is another half step. C to D (i.e. A string – 3rd fret to A string 5th fret) is a whole step, for which is encompasses two half steps. By following a certain pattern we can create a diatonic scale. A diatonic scale is a seven note + octave (repeat of tonic at a higher, or lower register) scale that consists of 5 whole steps, and two half steps for each octave. Two or three whole steps throughout the octave generally separate these half steps. Another type of scale is a chromatic scale. The chromatic scale is a scale that consists of 12 pitches (notes) that are each separated by a semitone (there are no whole steps in a chromatic scale). Chromatic notes can be seen as embellishments or inflections of the diatonic scale. A chromatic encompasses all of the 12 tones we use in western theory. I bring this up to point out an inconsistency in the pattern… Here is a Chromatic scale in C: C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab, A, A#/Bb, B, C (and repeat). As you can see, there is no E#, or B#. You will also notice that C#/Db, D#/Eb, F#/Gb, G#,Ab, and A#/Bb are counted as the same note. They are enharmonically equivalent. They are the same note with different names. This is important because when we spell out a scale, we do not use the same letter (note) twice! So, if we needed the sounds that are represented by, lets say, D and D# (half step) we will call it D and Eb.

The pattern to create a Major scale is to start with the Tonic (the key of the scale, we will use C since it is the easiest to grasp) then count space between notes using whole and half steps. (Whole tones and semi tones.) The Major pattern is Tonic, W, W, H, W, W, W, H. This can best be seen on a keyboard because the C major scale is C to C, only using the white keys.

Let’s break this down… You start with C and count a whole step (C#, D). Now we have our second note in the C Major scale. From D you count another whole step (D#, E). As you can see, you are counting the space between the notes, and the note you land on, is the desired tone for the scale. (Do not count D as 1, and then count D# as two… rather count D# as 1, then E as 2). From E, we count a half step to F (remember how there is no E# - technically, we can have an E#, but it is enharmonically equivalent to an F) From F we count another whole step (F#, G). From G we count another whole step (G#, A), Then from A, we do another whole step (A#, B) and finally we finish with a half step from B to C. So we have our C major scale: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.

If we were to do this in the key of G, we would get a Major scale that looks like this: G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G.
If were to do it in D, we would get the D Major scale: D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D

NOTE: The order I chose these keys was based of the Circle of Fifths. I highly recommend checking out wikipedia.com about the circle of fifths. If you have any questions on it, feel free to comment/ask.
So, as promised, here is a list of all the major and minor keys. Keep in mind; the minor keys have different whole, and half step patterns. They will be listed next to the scale quality (Major/ Minor).

Major scales: Tonic, W,W, H, W, W, W, H
Cb: Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb Cb
Gb: Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb
Db: Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db
Ab: Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab
Eb: Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb
Bb: Bb C D Eb F G A Bb
F: F G A Bb C D E F
C: C D E F G A B C
G: G A B C D E F# G
D: D E F# G A B C# D
A: A B C# D E F# G# A
E: E F# G# A B C# D# E
B: B C# D# E F# G# A# B
F#: F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#
C#: C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#

Natural Minor Scales: Tonic, W, H, W, W, H, W, W
Ab: Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab
Eb: Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb
Bb: Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb
F: F G Ab Bb C Db Eb F
C: C D Eb F G Ab Bb C
G: G A Bb C D Eb F G
D: D E F G A Bb C D
A: A B C D E F G A
E: E F# G A B C D E
B: B C# D E F# G A B
F#: F# G# A B C# D E F#
C#: C# D# E F# G# A B C#
G#: G # A# B C# D# E F# G#
D#: D# E# F# G# A# B C# D#
A#: A# B# C# D# E# F# G# A#

Harmonic Minor Scales: Tonic, W, H, W, W, H, 1 1/2, H
Ab: Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb G Ab
Eb: Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb D Eb
Bb: Bb C Db Eb F Gb A Bb
F: F G Ab Bb C Db E F
C: C D Eb F G Ab B C
G: G A Bb C D Eb F# G
D: D E F G A Bb C# D
A: A B C D E F G# A
E: E F# G A B C D# E
B: B C# D E F# G A# B
F#: F# G# A B C# D E# F#
C#: C# D# E F# G# A B# C#
G#: G# A# B C# D# E F# G#
D#: D# E# F# G# A# B Cx D#
A#: A# B# C# D# F# G# A#


Melodic Minor Scales: Ascending Tonic, W, H, W, W, W, W, H
Descending Tonic, W, W, H, W, W, H, W (natural)
Ab: Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F G Ab
Eb: Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D Eb
Bb: Bb C Db Eb F G A Bb
F: F G Ab Bb C D E F
C: C D Eb F G A B C
G: G A Bb C D E F# G
D: D E F G A B C# D
A: A B C D E F# G# A
E: E F# G A B C# D# E
B: B C# D E F# G# A# B
F#: F# G# A B C# D# E# F#
C#: C# D# E F# G# A# B# C#
G#: G# A# B C# D# E# F# G#
D#: D# E# F# G# A# B# C# D#
A#: A# B# C# D# E# F# G# A#
* In the Melodic Minor Scale, you ascend with a certain pattern, and descend with the natural minor pattern. I recommend getting used to the Major, Natural, and Harmonic patterns first.*

So, now we have all the scales you will most like need for now; unless you want to get into modes. Once understanding this, I am sure you can handle a search on modes.

How to use these aside from just learning the scales? Well, this is how you build chords. Each scale degree has a certain function in each scale.

Before we get into how to use these chords, I will define some terms, and then we need to know how to construct these chords. To build a chord, we take a look at the key we want to play in, and then chose its quality (Major/minor). Since we have been using C Major, we will continue to use it.

C Major scale: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

So far, we know nothing about the types of chords that we want to build in this scale (Each scale as a designated list of chords that are played for each scale degree. A scale degree is name of note, or key in relation to the Tonic. There are a few ways these scale degrees are termed.
1) Tonic, Supertonic, Mediant, Subdominant, Dominant, Submediant, Leading tone, Octave.
– The Tonic and Dominant are the most important ones, you will see why in a moment.
2) First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Octave
3) Roman numbers (I, ii, iii… varies on scale)
4) Arabic Numbers (1, 2, 3...
5) # Followed by M (Major); m (minor); + (augmented); ° (diminished) ø (half diminished)

Tonic: The key of scale. The most important scale degree because it is the tonal center determines everything else that happens with in the scale.

Supertonic: This is the 2nd scale degree in a scale. It is known as a predominant chord. Predominant chords are chords that strengthen the sound of the dominant (V chord), as opposed to using this chord to embellishment) So when you use this chord, its best to play a V chord (chord built on 5th scale degree) after it. Usually, you play this chord inverted, as ii6 (Major) or ii°6 (minor)
- Chord inversions are the spelling of a chord where the root of the chord, is not the lowest note.

Mediant: This is the middle note between the Tonic (1st) and the Dominant (5th). It is vital because it determines whether a triad, a three note chord, is Major or Minor.

Subdominant: This is another important chord of the scale because it is the same distance below the tonic, as the dominant is above the tonic. (I know... confusing… give it a bit of time if this is still unclear, you will understand)

Dominant: The fifth and second most important chord. This chord creates a type of instability that causes one to want to resolve back to the 1 chord (tonic).

Submediant: this is the sixth scale degree chord of a scale. It the halfway point between the dominant and tonic.

Leading Tone: this is the seventh scale degree chord of a scale. Has a very tendency to lead to the Tonic.

How to Build a chord

This process varies a little depending on the type of chord that you want to build. As always, we will start with a major chord, in the key of C, of course!
1) Take a look at the C major scale, and locate the tonic (C)
2) Find the Third (E)
3) Find the Fifth (G)

Nice and simple! We have a C Major chord! C E G!
How to build a minor chord? Well, take your C Major chord, and lower the third by a half step.
C minor C Eb G

Similar to this, we can build a diminished chord by taking a minor chord, and lowering the fifth by a half step!
C diminished: C eb gb

We also have augmented chords. To get these, you take the Major chord and raise the fifth a half step!
C Augmented: C E G#

If you are not too sure how of the scale you are working in, but still need to build a chord, there is a way of figuring it out! This method involves counting the amount of steps between each note.

Now that you know how to build a chord, I will show you the appropriate chords to use within the scales.

For a Major Chord start with Root, count 4 half steps to get to the Major 3rd. Then count 3 more half steps to get to the fifth. This method counts the amount of steps needed to take to get to the right note. By counting C as 1, you are counting the amount of tones between the root and M3rd. This is used for something different.

In C count: C#/Db (1), D (2), D#/Eb (3), E (4)
From the 3rd count 3 more half steps
From E count: F (1), F#/Gb (2), G (3)

For a Minor Chord start with Root and count 3 half steps to get to the minor 3rd then count 4 more half steps to get to the fifth. Take note of what is written above!

In C count: C#/Db (1), D (2), D#/Eb (3)
From the minor 3rd, count 4 more half steps
From Eb count: E (1), F (2), F#/Gb (3), G (4)

For a Diminished Chord start with Root and count 3 half steps to get to the minor 3rd then count another 3 steps to get to the diminished fifth.

In C count: C#/Db (1), D (2), D#/Eb (3)
From the minor 3rd, count 4 more half steps
From Eb count: E (1), F (2), Gb (3)

- You do not count Gb as F# in this situation because you are already using the F as the 4th, and cannot repeat a note name with a different quality.

For an Augmented Chord start with Root and count 4 half steps to get to the major 3rd then count another 4 half steps to get the raised fifth.

In C count: C#/Db (1), D (2), D#/Eb (3), E (4)
From the Major 3rd count 4 more half steps
From E count: F (1), F#/Gb (2), G (3), G# (4)


*****END OF SECTION 1. PROCEED TO SECTION 2 IN THE FIRST COMMENT OF THIS THREAD*****

[Papa Dangerous]

Chords and progression of scale.

In this section, I will show you the chord progression of each note in the scale from one scale degree chord to the next consecutive scale degree chord. In making music, you typically do no play these chords in consecutively… In other words, you do not want to build a song playing I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii, I. This is just to show you the chord quality within the scale.

We start with Major, as always. Use all the previous information to build the appropriate chord in the progression.

Major Chord Progression:
M, m, m, M, M, m, dim, M
I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viidim, I
-if you were to play in CMaj, then the chords you would use are C Maj, d min, e min, F maj, G Maj, a min, b dim, C Maj

Natural Minor Progression:
min, dim, maj, min, min, maj, maj, min
i, ii dim, III, iv, v, VI, VII, i

Harmonic Minor Progression:
min, dim, augmented*, min, maj, maj, dim, min
i, ii dim, III+, iv, V, VI, viidim, i

*Although it is augmented, a Maj third is commonly used in practice

Melodic Minor Progression:
min, min, augmented*, maj, maj, dim, dim, min
i, ii, III+, IV, V, vi dim, vii dim, i

Now you understand triads! Triads are not the only form of chord; we also have 7th, 9th, and 13th chords. To keep things simple, I will not get into 9th and 13th chords at this time. (I may or may not edit this information and add it)
Seventh Chords add a fourth note, and expand the chord. It is 1, 3, 5, 7

There are different types of seventh chords for different uses.
Types:
Major 7 (M/M 7): Root, M3, P5, M7
Minor 7 (m/m 7): Root, m3, P5, m7
Dominant 7 (M/m 7 aka 7): Root, M3, P5, m7
Diminished 7 (dim/dim 7, aka °7): Root, m3, °5, °7
Half Diminished 7 (dim/min 7 aka minor seventh flat five, m7♭5, -7♭5, ø): Root, m3, °5, m7
Minor Major 7 (mmaj 7): Root, m3, P5, M7
Augmented 7 (Min 7 #5): Root, M3, +5, m7

To choose the Major 7th note, play a half step before the root.
So in CM7, the M7 seventh tone is b.
To choose the Minor 7th note, play a whole step before the root.
So in cm7, the m7 seventh tone is bb (b flat)

NOTE:

Each seventh chord can have a specific use. Such as, say in C Major:
1st (Tonic) would use the M7 seventh chord - CM7
4th (SubDom) would use M7 seventh chord -FM7
5th (Dom) would use the 7 (Dom7) seventh chord - G7
2nd (Supertonic) would use m7 seventh chord - dm7
3rd (Mediant) would use the m7 seventh chord - em7
6th (SubMed) would use the m7 seventh chord - am7
7th (Leading) would use the ø7 seventh chord - bø7

OKAY! So we now know our background in scales and chords. The point of knowing these is key in learning the fret board.

You now have enough info to really get you going.

A great way to approach all this information is the use of walking bass lines. Walking bass lines outline chords (arpeggios). Say you want a walking bass line in the key of G Major. Simply lay down a simple chord progression using roots. (There is a ton of info on different chord progressions on the net, the most common being the circle of fifths progression) Lets say we play 1, 4, 7, 1, 6, 2, 5, 1 progression using all 7th chords. That would be GM7, CM7, f#ø7, GM7, em7, am7, D7, and GM7. Now look at the chord spellings in the chart, and add the appropriate 7th chord. If you need to at first, write down what you want to play so you do not forget it and you can just jump into the exercise. (Will get back to this)

First I am going to show you what you will be playing, before I show you how to play it. This is just a reference, an icebreaker, so to say, into the next section

Tonic to 1st/8th scale degree is unison/Octave
Tonic to 2nd scale degree can be a Major 2nd or
Tonic to 2nd scale degree can be a Minor 2nd (Not found in Major or minor scale)
Tonic to 4th scale degree is a Perfect 4th in Major and Minor scales
Tonic to 5th scale degree is a Perfect 5th in Major and Minor scales
*(Remember, this is applicable to M and m scales. A, let’s say 4th, will not always have to be perfect, but in reference to the M and m scale, it is perfect. )*
This refers primarily to the Major and minor scales, and to the scale degree, which will be the root of each chord. This also does not imply that the chord played is Major or Minor (i.e. Major 2nd), it talks about the amount of steps involved (I did not mention. A Major 2nd is essentially a whole step while a minor 2nd is a half step. Tonic to m6 would be 9 steps, and Tonic to M6 would be 10 steps.
-When I say, for example, Tonic to the 4th. I mean the Tonic (let's say in the key G) to the Subdominant (C).
* There is no Major or minor 4th/5th in Major or Minor scales...

So let us take a look at these intervals!

Intervals are a combination of two notes. They can be played simultaneously; known as harmonic intervals (harmony) or the can be successively; known as melodic intervals (melody).

The most common way to classify these intervals is based on their quality.

If 0 is the tonic, then 12 is the Octave. Think of the Chromatic scale we discussed earlier. The numbers on the left refer to how many semi tones (half steps) it is needed to reach the type of chord on the right. It is important to count the tonic as 0 when counting half steps because from the tonic to the tonic requires no motion, thus 0 steps.

0= P1
1= A1, m2
2= M2
3= A2, m3
4= M3
5= P4
6= A4, d5
7= P5
8= A5, m6
9= M6, d7
10= A6, m7
11= M7
12= P8

How to use this to understand the fretboard

Well, by now you should understand that there are multiple patterns going on within scales and chords. The best way to make use of these patterns is by knowing the intervals, the distance between the tonic, and any other note within the scale, and eventually, any note to any note in the scale. This becomes very useful when you know the location of each note in the scale via the fret board, and you gain an understanding of why it is that way. Its is good to know the notes you would want to use, the notes you do not want to use, and the notes that are outside of the scale that can be used. But to start, check out the image above of the fret board (open in separate window) and follow along.

In the key of G Major OR g minor!:

*P1 to P8
E string - 3rd Fret (G)
D string - 5th Fret (G)
- This finger pattern on the fret board will ALWAYS be an octave. Know it! It consists of 12 semi tones up from the Tonic.

*P1 to M2
E string - 3rd fret (G)
E string - 5th fret (A)
- This finger pattern on the fret board is a major second (Supertonic) found in Major and Minor scales! It consists of 2 semi tones up from the Tonic.

*P1 to m2
E string - 3rd fret (G)
E string - 4th fret (Ab)
- This finger pattern on the fret board is a minor second. A minor second is a half step (This is not part of the Major or minor scale). It consists of 1 semi tone up from the Tonic.

*P1 to P4
E string - 3rd fret (G)
A string - 3rd fret (C)
- This finger pattern on the fret board is a Perfect 4th (Subdominant) in M and m scales. It consists of 5 semitones up from the Tonic.


*P1 to P5
E string - 3rd fret (G)
A string - 5th fret (D)
- This finger pattern on the fret board will always be a Perfect 5th (Dominant) in M and m scales. It consists of 7 semitones up from the Tonic.

Now we look at
1-M3
1-m3
1-M6
1-m6
1-M7
1-m7

*P1 to M3
E string - 3rd fret (G)
A string - 2nd fret (B)
- This finger pattern on the fret is a board Major 3rd (Mediant). Anytime you are playing a 1,4, or 5 in Major you can play this pattern to find the Major third. (This is the same thing if you play a Major chord in a minor key!) This is important to know in deciding the chord quality. It consists of 4 semitones up from the Tonic. (Remember the Major chord construction from earlier?)

*P1 to m3
E string - 3rd fret (G)
E string - 6th fret (Bb)
-This finger pattern on the fret board Minor 3rd (Mediant). Anytime you are playing a 2nd, 3rd, or 6th in Major key, you can locate the minor third of these chords. This is important to know in deciding chord quality. It consists of 3 semi tones up from the Tonic. (Remember the minor chord construction?)

*P1 to M6
E string - 3rd fret (G)
D string - 2nd fret (E)
-This finger pattern on the fret board is a Major 6th (Submediant). It consists of 9 semi tones up from the tonic.

*P1 to m6
E string - 3rd fret (G)
A string - 6th fret (Eb)
-This finger pattern on the fret board is a minor 6th (Submediant). It consists of 8 semi tones up from the tonic.

*P1 to M7
E string - 3rd fret (G)
D string - 4th fret (F#)
-This finger pattern on the fret board is a Major 7th (Leading Tone). It consists of 11 semitones up from the Tonic.

*P1 to m7
E string - 3rd fret (G)
D string - 3rd fret (F)
-This finger pattern on the fret board is a Minor 7th (Leading Tone). It consists of 10 semitones up from the Tonic.

All the semi tones count are ascending from the Tonic. If you wish to descend from the Tonic, simply subtract the amount of semi tones the ascend would need from 12. Then count out those steps.
-For example: To descend a M6… 12 (Total amount of semi tones) – 9 (Amount of semi tones needed to reach a M6 when ascending) = 3 (The amount of semi tones it takes to descend to a M6). Now count down those 3 semi tones from the Tonic.

There we have it! The intervals from Tonic to any note in the M or m scale! Final step!

Let us use all our information from what we learned. We are going to outline the chords GM7, CM7, f#ø7, GM7, em7, am7, D7, and GM7 (Our progression from earlier!) Play it out with the diagram and your eyes first. See the patterns before you play them!

GM7: E-3, A-2, A-5, D-4 (This pattern can be played for any M7 chord, so memorize it!)
CM7: A-3, D-2, D-5, G-4 (see, same pattern!)
f#ø7: E-2, E-5, A-3, D-2 (half dim pattern)
GM7: D-4, A-5, A-2, E-3 (you can ascend also!)
em7: E-0, E-3, A-2, D-1 (min7 pattern)
am7: A-0, A-3, D-2, G-1 (same min7 pattern, again!)
D7: D-0, D-4, G-2, G-5 (not the ideal way I would have showed off the Dom7 chord, but it had to fit somehow. This is reason to know how to spell out the chords, you can work you way out of a tight spot like this!)
GM7: D-4, A-5, A-2, E-3 (Voila!)

And there is your walking bass line. Give it a nice solid sound and rhythm and you can go far!

If you read the pattern on the diagram, then you should of realized that the entire time, you only played notes within the scale! That means all that was done with 7 notes! As you study into more theory, you will learn that you can borrow other notes outside of the scale... These are really cool!

You should now try and figure out ways to arpeggiate the chords I did not tell you how to play (Augmented). The only way to truly learn to is try and do it on your own. Also, I recommend trying to figure out other ways to spell M, m, Dim, or Augmented chords.

Study all the different types of patterns you can do by means of seventh chord arpeggios. Read other sources for more details if desired. Eventually you can move on to 9th and 13th chords!

There is a lot of information on here! Please do not overwhelm yourself!! ENJOY!!!!!!

Feel free to add any comments, ask any questions, and fix any errors that might have been made. (Which I hope are none)

[MalcolmAmos]

Boys and girls, friends and neighbors, bookmark this for study material and keep it as a reference source.

Lot of good information here.

[nogoodwithnames]

Sub'd so I don't lose it. that looks like a lot of work to type out, thanks. Should come in pretty handy for a noob like me.

[JebDude]

Looks very, very helpful! Can't wait to dig into this. I haven't progressed very far in my Bass Adventure yet. Hoping to get farther this fall and winter.

JB

[AFRO]

WOW!

that is some good looking out bro. thanks for the hard work monn.

(I sincerely hope that the n00bs use the search function and it takes them to this here thread. and I wish them the patience to utilize the 'straight knowledge' in this post.)

Almost warrants a Sticky!

[Shovelbone]

Nice work Papa! Very concise and clear! I will recommend this you a few newbies that I know!
Thanks a plenty!!!

[Papa Dangerous]

Thanks for the feed back folks! I used to repeat a chunk of this information out in my head pretending I was trying to teach someone. I would occasionally write out the scales and chords and how to form them. I think that really aided in my ability to understand this info. Also, don't feel intimated by all that there is, I had to look up some details to make sure I was providing accurate details. Just grab the main points and the rest will follow in due time

[projectMalamute]

I glanced over it very, very briefly and had two errors jump out at me.

This is wrong:

f#ø7: E-2, E-4, A-3, D-2 (half dim pattern)

should be: f#ø7: E-2, E-5, A-3, D-2 (half dim pattern)

and:

E string - 3rd fret (G)
E string - 5th fret (A)
- this spacing will always be the minor second found in Major and Minor scales!

that's a major second.

and in skimming back to find the quotes this jumped out at me:

Augmented 7 (Maj 7 #5): Root, M3, P5, M7

an augmented 7th chord and a major 7#5 are two different things. You have the spelling for a M7#5. An augmented 7 (often written +7) is spelled R M3 P5 m7.

No idea how much else is inaccurate. Just haphazardly glancing at a couple isolated paragraphs got me that much.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

I glanced over it very, very briefly and had two errors jump out at me.

This is wrong:

should be: f#ø7: E-2, E-5, A-3, D-2 (half dim pattern)

and:

that's a major second.

and in skimming back to find the quotes this jumped out at me:

an augmented 7th chord and a major 7#5 are two different things. You have the spelling for a M7#5. An augmented 7 (often written +7) is spelled R M3 P5 m7.

No idea how much else is inaccurate. Just haphazardly glancing at a couple isolated paragraphs got me that much.

Wow... This is a bit embarrassing.

Okay so first off, I must of just made a typo on the half dim pattern.

The M/m second is just bad on my end. I will have to correct that. m2nd is a half step, the smallest interval on could make. And the M2nd is a whole step.

As for the augmented chord, I had to check somewhere for that and read M7#5. I now realize, and I think we were both wrong, that the Augmented 7th should he spelled
R, M3, #5, m7.

Please let me know I got this correct before I repost. Thanks for your help

[MalcolmAmos]

Take heart. An epistle like you've done will always take some proof reading.

Yes you will find some typo's, however, before going to something else spend some time with what you have. All good information, just verify this is the final draft you want.

[Schlyder]

there is a good chart at the bottom of this page that explains the Augmented 7th chord.

Augmented 7th Chord | Evangelistic Piano

[abstractart06]

Thanks for the wealth of information. This is the area where I need work.

[AcidFripp]

So... can we eventually sticky this nonsense?

This really is great stuff!

[Papa Dangerous]

I corrected the above mentioned information. If anyone else spots anymore errors, I would be more than happy to fix them. I would love for this to be in a perfect state, and readily made available to everyone who is interested in this.

Feel free to leave comments if you use this, and let me know if it was helpful/ may need some clarification! (I use a lot of "!"... I must be really excited about this stuff )

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

I corrected the above mentioned information. If anyone else spots anymore errors, I would be more than happy to fix them. I would love for this to be in a perfect state, and readily made available to everyone who is interested in this.

Feel free to leave comments if you use this, and let me know if it was helpful/ may need some clarification! (I use a lot of "!"... I must be really excited about this stuff )

Just a couple of things, off the top of my head.

The Gb major scale has one wrong note: C should be Cb.

And this bit is confusing:

"Well, by now you should understand that there are multiple patterns going on within scales and chords. The best way to make use of these patterns is by knowing the intervals between a root, and any note, and eventually, any note to any note. So to start, check out the image above of the fret board (open in separate window). Lets start with:
1-1 Octave
1-2 Minor 2nd
1-4 Perfect 4th
1-5 Perfect 5th
I choose these first because they are the same intervals between Major and minor scales! Once you know these, all you have to do is learn the difference in M and m 3rd, 6ths, and 7ths!"

1-2 is just a 2nd, any 2nd, not necessarily major or minor or anything else without specifying further. Same with 4th and 5th: you can't say they're perfect or augmented or diminished without further info.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Just a couple of things, off the top of my head.

The Gb major scale has one wrong note: C should be Cb.

And this bit is confusing:

"Well, by now you should understand that there are multiple patterns going on within scales and chords. The best way to make use of these patterns is by knowing the intervals between a root, and any note, and eventually, any note to any note. So to start, check out the image above of the fret board (open in separate window). Lets start with:
1-1 Octave
1-2 Minor 2nd
1-4 Perfect 4th
1-5 Perfect 5th
I choose these first because they are the same intervals between Major and minor scales! Once you know these, all you have to do is learn the difference in M and m 3rd, 6ths, and 7ths!"

1-2 is just a 2nd, any 2nd, not necessarily major or minor or anything else without specifying further. Same with 4th and 5th: you can't say they're perfect or augmented or diminished without further info.

Thanks for spotting that scale error!! Damn things get so annoying to write out lol

I actually have a slight error in that, but its not what you were talking about.

Perhaps the way I viewed the intervals is what is causing the confusion.

1-1 - unison 1-8 octave. That seems fine.
1-2 as in G-Ab or G to A is a minor 2nd, verse major second in terms of intervals. A minor second is the smallest increment, and the Major second is the second smallest, ie half step/ semi tone and whole step/whole tone. Also, the minor second is the inverse to the Major seventh, and the major second is the inverse to the minor seventh.
1-4, and 1-5 are perfects because.they are the dominant (5) and subdominant (4) and are the inverse of each other. The inverses numbers usually are equal to nine, and are major and minor. Like minor 2nd and M7, they are both a half step away from the root. M2nd, and m7 are both a whole step from the root. 2+7=9. A minor 3rd and major 6th are the same distance from the root (4 semi tones) and the same for the Major 3rd and minor 6th (5 semi tones), and 3+6=9. When it comes to 4ths and 5ths, there is no major/minor 4th or 5th inverse of each other. Granted there is diminished and augmented, but that refers to the chord structure. This has been my understanding for the terms of M,m,Perfect and Unison in relation to intervals.
- However, I may be wrong on this. How do you view the term "Perfect"

[dtiii]

Be careful of your half-step count. It seems like you are counting every fret from one note to the next. When counting half steps you start with zero because you are not counting notes you are counting the distance from one pitch to an adjacent pitch. So, while a Major 3rd spans the distance of 5 frets on a single string, it’s made up of 4 half steps.
Intervals contained within the one-octave chromatic scale with number of half steps followed by interval:
0= P1
1= A1, m2
2= M2
3= A2, m3
4= M3
5= P4
6= A4, d5
7= P5
8= A5, m6
9= M6, d7
10= A6, m7
11= M7
12= P8

This chart doesn't include every possible interval, just the ones that occur fairly frequently to mostly.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by dtiii

Be careful of your half-step count. It seems like you are counting every fret from one note to the next. When counting half steps you start with zero because you are not counting notes you are counting the distance from one pitch to an adjacent pitch. So, while a Major 3rd spans the distance of 5 frets on a single string, it’s made up of 4 half steps.
Intervals contained within the one-octave chromatic scale with number of half steps followed by interval:
0= P1
1= A1, m2
2= M2
3= A2, m3
4= M3
5= P4
6= A4, d5
7= P5
8= A5, m6
9= M6, d7
10= A6, m7
11= M7
12= P8

This chart doesn't include every possible interval, just the ones that occur fairly frequently to mostly.

Interesting that you say that. From what I had learned, through a college piano class (not bass, but that seems arbitrary) is that you count the first note you play as one, and to always count the starting note, no matter the scale degree as 1. (not saying every scale degree is 1, but if you want to get between say a m3 and m6, your start on the minor third as 1) There are 12 different scale tones in a chromatic scale, not including the octave, since it is not a different key from the root. So by starting at the root/P1 as the root, by the time we get to 12, we have the M7 and the 13 is the octave.

It would seem clumsy that both practices are acceptable, so I will investigate the internet and see what other people have to say. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

Thanks for spotting that scale error!! Damn things get so annoying to write out lol

I actually have a slight error in that, but its not what you were talking about.

Perhaps the way I viewed the intervals is what is causing the confusion.

1-1 - unison 1-8 octave. That seems fine.
1-2 as in G-Ab or G to A is a minor 2nd, verse major second in terms of intervals. A minor second is the smallest increment, and the Major second is the second smallest, ie half step/ semi tone and whole step/whole tone. Also, the minor second is the inverse to the Major seventh, and the major second is the inverse to the minor seventh.
1-4, and 1-5 are perfects because.they are the dominant (5) and subdominant (4) and are the inverse of each other. The inverses numbers usually are equal to nine, and are major and minor. Like minor 2nd and M7, they are both a half step away from the root. M2nd, and m7 are both a whole step from the root. 2+7=9. A minor 3rd and major 6th are the same distance from the root (4 semi tones) and the same for the Major 3rd and minor 6th (5 semi tones), and 3+6=9. When it comes to 4ths and 5ths, there is no major/minor 4th or 5th inverse of each other. Granted there is diminished and augmented, but that refers to the chord structure. This has been my understanding for the terms of M,m,Perfect and Unison in relation to intervals.
- However, I may be wrong on this. How do you view the term "Perfect"

I think you're kinda missing my point. The point is really that when you say 1-2, 1-4, whatever, it's not at all clear what those numbers refer to. is it frets? if so, most are incorrect. Is it intervals? If so, my point stands, because you can't know anything about the quality of the intervals unless you specify it, either directly or by specifying the scale they derive from. 1-4, by itself, describes ANY 4th, not
necessarily a perfect 4th. Taken in isolation, C# to F natural is just as much a 1-4 as C-F is.

I think you're assuming 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 naturally refer to the major scale. That's not necessarily true, and even in this post, you don't use them that way 100%.

Nothing wrong with your ideas, just that they could be further clarified.