G7 - Cdim - ????

[mutedeity]

Here is a hypothetical.

Say we have a chord progression that goes from G7 to cdim and we wanted to resolve it. What would you use as the resolution and why?

[Deacon_Blues]

C7, C (C7 if it is a bluesy song in C, plain C otherwise) or A7

To resolve to A7 sounds nice thanks to the chromatic movement up a half step a time (on guitar I played it like G,F,B,D - C,F#,C,D# - A,G,C#,E) but it needs further resolving. e.g. |G7,Cdim|A7 | Dm7,G7| C |. It's still in the key of C though. Can't imagine it in another key. Can someone else perhaps?

[DocBop]

I'm with Deacon_Blues that is a classic Blues/Gospel sound setting up a dominant by using a diminish first. G7, C dim, C7.

[onlyclave]

Howzabout this?

edit: Crap. That's F natural on the first chord.

[Broseph]

If this is a standard jazz tune you could always do the simple thing and resolve to F. A lot of guys think regular minor chords (b3,7) are boring and try to sub them out every chance they get. Depending on how you voice it, it would probably sound similar enough to an alt. You run the risk of 14th century missionaries calling you a witch and burning you at the stake, but a gig is a gig.

If this is a trick question, then i say the G7 is a tritone sub to Cdim as a passing tone, down to B. I haven't had a theory class in a while though, so it's a stretch. I'm probably confusing myself.

[mutedeity]

It's not a "trick" question per se. I just wanted to see how people would approach resolving this. I was actually thinking in terms of the next chord being the resolution. What I was also looking at is how the dominant might function. I have a few ideas about it but I want to see some other people's responses first. Some interesting answers so far though. onlyclave's response comes close to one of my ideas, but he also takes it a bit further.

[steve66]

Just a thought - G C B D G

[HaVIC5]

I hear this progression:

G7 - Cdim - G/B - D7/A - G resolving to C minor. That's just me though.

[Deacon_Blues]

Another try:

G7, Cdim, Fm7, Bb9, Eb6

You can also turn around the notes in the Cdim chord so you get the F# in the bass instead (=F#dim).

[DocBop]

Or change/add one note and instead of Cdim use C mi7b5 and now you are implying a G7b9.

[Deacon_Blues]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Or change/add one note and instead of Cdim use C mi7b5 and now you are implying a G7b9.

Eh..? Something went wrong here I guess or then I'm not following what you say. At least if you mean that Cm7b5/G = G7b9, because that's not true. Bdim/G = G7b9 and Bm7b5/G=G9.

[ryco]

If it's a full c dim (C Eb Gb Bbb) there are a lot of places it could go since c dim contains four tri tones = C & Gb > Db; Eb & Bbb > E (Fb); Gb & C > G (Abb); Bbb & Eb > Cbb (Bb). And the resolutions could be Major or minor.

If it's a cø it could go to Db Major, or f min (by Classical Harmony)- give it a Picardy 3rd and make it F Maj.

I was goofing with this last night and came across the prog G7 > c dim > D Maj, keeping the A (Bbb) and the Gb (F#), moving Eb down to D and C up to D. Don't have any theoretical reason to do this, but it sounds cool. If I garnish a big hit off if this progression I will share half the writing credit and points with mutedeity. With you TBers as witness.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

Eh..? Something went wrong here I guess or then I'm not following what you say. At least if you mean that Cm7b5/G = G7b9, because that's not true. Bdim/G = G7b9 and Bm7b5/G=G9.

Brain fart too early in the morning. You are right thanks for catching that.

[ryco]

Originally Posted by ryco

... came across the prog G7 > c dim > D Maj... Don't have any theoretical reason to do this, but it sounds cool.

OK -- figured it out. The tri tone inversion. A tri tone is the functioning interval of the 3rd and 7th in a Dom chord. The tri tone is also an interval where the 3rd and 7 can be flip-flopped. For instance C7 has a tri tone interval of E (3rd) & Bb (7th), which usually resolves to F (V7 > I). OR you can flip that interval and hear it as the 7th (E) and 3rd (A# [enharmonic of Bb]) of F#7 which usually resolves to B.

This is done in modern music harmony and lays the ground for "tri-tone substitutions"; ala chromatic progressions as: d min > Db7b5* > C (ii - bII7b5 - I). *sub for G7 (ii - V7 - I)

So by flipping all the tri tones in a fully diminished chord as explained in the beginning of post #12, I have 4 more chords I can resolve to (actually 8 because they can be Maj or min) with roots D F A Cb

[steverosati]

what about treating it as (c-7b5)Ab9 that would create 1/2 step movement ? thats how I would treat it.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by ryco

OK -- figured it out. The tri tone inversion. A tri tone is the functioning interval of the 3rd and 7th in a Dom chord. The tri tone is also an interval where the 3rd and 7 can be flip-flopped. For instance C7 has a tri tone interval of E (3rd) & Bb (7th), which usually resolves to F (V7 > I). OR you can flip that interval and hear it as the 7th (E) and 3rd (A# [enharmonic of Bb]) of F#7 which usually resolves to B.

This is done in modern music harmony and lays the ground for "tri-tone substitutions"; ala chromatic progressions as: d min > Db7b5* > C (ii - bII7b5 - I). *sub for G7 (ii - V7 - I)

So by flipping all the tri tones in a fully diminished chord as explained in the beginning of post #12, I have 4 more chords I can resolve to (actually 8 because they can be Maj or min) with roots D F A Cb

I discussed this one with a friend of mine and they came up with that same resolution. You would probably be best to play the Cdim as a 6 chord in that case which gives it a kind of downward resolution. I would also resolve up to C# as a 6/4 chord.

Another thing I came up with was to resolve to C using the first chord as the dominant and treating the Cdim chord as a "passing" chord. For some reason this seems to be the most obvious resolution at first. Interesting answers from everyone though.

Cheers