Geddy almost soloing in guitar solo sections?

Zakmusic · #1 07-03-2011, 02:55 AM

As we know, it is a general rule to play simply when a vocal or another instrument is taking the lead. But Geddy seems to ignore it and play busily. Particularly when the guitar is soloing (e.g: Freewill, closer to the heart, camera eye etc.). The thing is it sounds good n fit together. I've heard ppl say something about counterpoint where another instrument play a seperate melody on top of another melody. I guess that's the principle behind Ged's playing (or is it?).

Obviously this style of playing is very appealing. The thing that got me confused is he's doing all his busy playing when alex is soloing (as in Freewill). It contradicts with "play simply when someone is taking the lead".

My question is how does this type of playing work, and when will it sound more appropriate?

Actually Freewill sounded like 3 guys soloing...it is a crazy tune

Ayliffe · #2 07-03-2011, 03:11 AM

This is one of the reasons Geddy is so good - he's able to play busy lines and keep the groove and song moving. It's not something most people are capable of, to the extent that he is, but with practice you'll just learn where it fits and where it doesn't. If the song is getting intense coming up to the solo, it has a much better chance of working.

It's also just the nature of Rush to sound like that, so it just fits innately.

**bassybill** · #3 07-03-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakmusic

As we know, it is a general rule to play simply when a vocal or another instrument is taking the lead. But Geddy seems to ignore it and play busily. Particularly when the guitar is soloing (e.g: Freewill, closer to the heart, camera eye etc.). The thing is it sounds good n fit together. I've heard ppl say something about counterpoint where another instrument play a seperate melody on top of another melody. I guess that's the principle behind Ged's playing (or is it?).

Obviously this style of playing is very appealing. The thing that got me confused is he's doing all his busy playing when alex is soloing (as in Freewill). It contradicts with "play simply when someone is taking the lead".

My question is how does this type of playing work, and when will it sound more appropriate?

Actually Freewill sounded like 3 guys soloing...it is a crazy tune

What Geddy is doing is fitting in with the mood and feel of the music. Sometimes you need to keep things simple to do this, and sometimes you don't.

Let the music you're hearing guide you on this, rather than any rules you're hearing. And have fun!

SMILEYSIXX · #4 07-03-2011, 03:52 AM

As Geddy once put it in an interview, "I'm a pretty obnoxious bassist". In essence, it's pretty true. Rush is my favorite band without question, and Geddy is definitely one of my favorite bassists, but he is always up in everyone's business, but he knows how to do it properly, and that's why it works. You have to be Geddy to understand Geddy, don't expect that your mere mortal mind can comprehend what he does.

Zakmusic · #5 07-03-2011, 04:15 AM

Sometimes I think that if Geddy hasn't make his name yet and play like he does in freewill in another band, he'll be hated.
But his lines does work. I'm interested if someone knows what is making it work? It could be another useful tool. Is it a matter of taste rather than appropriate or not regarding rush music. Like in the solo section of closer to the heart, there is bass n drum fill every fourth bar. Some may call it overplay while the rush members accept that.

MalcolmAmos · #6 07-03-2011, 06:39 AM

I'm not familiar with his playing, however, I would suspect he plays what I call echo melody. There are only a few that can pull this off, i.e. echoing the melody the solo instrument is playing. Not competing, but, augmenting.

Yes, normally "less is more" when accompanying the soloist, however, echo melody augments the solo, and this is what makes it work.

Our lead guitar can do this, he is an old pedal steal guy, lot of pedal steal is echo melody.

Of course IMHO.

jpTron · #7 07-03-2011, 06:52 AM

Freewill almost sounds like Geddy and Neil wrote their parts first and then Alex fit in his solo after. That might be the case with a lot of their "whole band solos". That might be why his parts work so well under Alex's leads because they were there first. Or it might not be the case and Geddy just really has an uncanny ability to pull that off.

PhiDeck · #8 07-03-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

I'm not familiar with his playing, however, I would suspect he plays what I call echo melody.

Thanks for contributing. Opining or speculating about matters with which one is unfamiliar can help those who are informed to think outside the box they are otherwise constrained to by knowledge.

Quote:

Our lead guitar can do this, he is an old pedal steal guy,

Assuming you know that steal ≠ steel, this may explain a lot of missing pedals. Perhaps you could post his name, address, and mug shot, as well as where and when your band has played since he joined it.

evil monkey · #9 07-03-2011, 07:25 AM

i had a feeling that maybe during singing even geddy cant go "all out" as any person would have some difficulty with it and when his not singing his playing can get more complex and he choose to do so,i always wondered if this because of songs like yyz which seem more complex because geddy doesn't need to sing and can really focus on the bass more,seems logic to me but its just a thought

Schlyder · #10 07-03-2011, 07:52 AM

You need to see the big picture here OP...
1 - they are a Progressive Rock band, so what he is doing easily falls within the norms of the genre.
2 - They are a 3 piece band, so although he may be a bit "busy" during a guitar solo, he is trying to fill out the sound at that moment, or trying to play with the guitarist not under him. Like playing unison lines, or call/response lines, or as said earlier, counterpoint type lines.
3 - Geddy is a very melodic player, so he is not going to be riding the roots much anyways.

phall2112 · #11 07-03-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlyder

You need to see the big picture here OP...
1 - they are a Progressive Rock band, so what he is doing easily falls within the norms of the genre.
2 - They are a 3 piece band, so although he may be a bit "busy" during a guitar solo, he is trying to fill out the sound at that moment, or trying to play with the guitarist not under him. Like playing unison lines, or call/response lines, or as said earlier, counterpoint type lines.
3 - Geddy is a very melodic player, so he is not going to be riding the roots much anyways.

martinmcfly · #12 07-03-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakmusic

As we know, it is a general rule to play simply when a vocal or another instrument is taking the lead. But Geddy seems to ignore it and play busily.

I guess Berry Oakly, Jack Bruce, and many others didn't get the memo. I think you should hold back only during vocals, if you are doing covers, or if the guitarist gets messed up if you jam along with him
Personally, that's why I love to play in Power Trios, so I can fill and jam all over the place.

Ric5 · #13 07-03-2011, 08:24 AM

Geddy is not just wanking there ... He goes through a pattern. It repeats and always starts with the same 2 notes and he holds down the chord changes and throws in some improv on top of it all.

Ric5 · #14 07-03-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinmcfly

I guess Berry Oakly, Jack Bruce, and many others didn't get the memo. I think you should hold back only during vocals, if you are doing covers, or if the guitarist gets messed up if you jam along with him
Personally, that's why I love to play in Power Trios, so I can fill and jam all over the place.

I sometimes play the opposite ... I embellish the line during the vocals and play simplier during the lead. It depends on the song.

martinmcfly · #15 07-03-2011, 10:34 AM

Geddy's lines always fit the song and I'm kinda shocked anyone would say anything negative about his playing. And he sings too.

handofseven · #16 07-03-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinmcfly

And he sings too.

Not to mention running the keys and pedals as well... Ridonkulous!

Zakmusic · #17 07-04-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schlyder

2 - They are a 3 piece band, so although he may be a bit "busy" during a guitar solo, he is trying to fill out the sound at that moment, or trying to play with the guitarist not under him. Like playing unison lines, or call/response lines, or as said earlier, counterpoint type lines.

I've heard the "fill out the sound" thing a few times regarding busy basslines during guitar solos. I'm a bit confused by this point. Does that mean by playing more i can take up more space? At the end of the day is it not a bass instrument? I mean...how does the bass "fill out the sound" by playing busy compared to root notes? I hope u know what i mean.