Get Me Jamming!

RonocMan · #1 12-10-2010, 11:53 AM

Folks,

I've been playing the bass on and off for a couple of years now at home but any time i meet up with my mates for a Jam and i've one massive problem. I only know tableature...

The minute a jam deviates from a song I know the tab for, I'm fumbling around the fretboard quitely trying to hit notes that sound vaguely on-key with everyone else and usually failing! - or else i just put the bass down.

HELP NEEDED!

What do I need to know to get me confidently playing in this situation, knowing that i'm at least going to hit the right notes, then maybe progressing to a point where i can add my innovations? I'm happy to put in the time into learning but just need to know where to start...

Thanks,
Conor

funkmangriff · #2 12-10-2010, 11:56 AM

throw your tab away!

learn to read chord charts, learn your scales, learn your keys and then try and forget it all and concentrate on feel

GianGian · #3 12-10-2010, 12:01 PM

Get to know the key of the song by trial and error and find which notes sound good. Then you will know what notes you can play.
On the long run, learn some basic theory, it will help you a lot.

BigOldHarry · #4 12-10-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkmangriff

throw your tab away!

learn to read chord charts, learn your scales, learn your keys and then try and forget it all and concentrate on feel

THIS!!!!

As a n00b, learning how to basically read chord charts is darned good idea.

Also, learn your basic playing positions - 1/4/5, that sort of thing. And learn tunes by ear - that will improve your ear (big shock, right) and be fun.

Art Araya · #5 12-10-2010, 12:05 PM

train your ears. the most important tool you need as a musician is well developed ears. the ability to hear something and reproduce it on your bass in real time.

this will take time so be patient with yourself.

put the radio on and jam along. don't limit yourself to the bass lines only. play the melody, play the guitar part, the keyboard part, the drum part. it's all good for growing your ear and your overall musicality.

tangentmusic · #6 12-10-2010, 12:14 PM

To me, learning to play songs by tab is like a paint-by-numbers approach to music. You dont really learn to improvise with the instrument.
Get aquainted with what & where the notes are on the fretboard.
Play along with recordings, not worrying about playing exactly what the bass player is playing. Find the notes and key to the song by ear. Listen to the drummer & play off him.
Find the groove and mess around with riffs or scales there.
Whist jamming, ask what key you're in, and what the changes coming up are going to be.
A little theory goes a long way.
Remember, you need to know the rules before you can break them...

MalcolmAmos · #7 12-10-2010, 12:43 PM

Jamming is a journey. Not going to come over night. You have to earn the right to jamm with a lot of study. Ditto what has been said.

Learn where the notes are on your fretboard.

Use the major scale box pattern.

Here is how to use it. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...67#post9372867

Play along to these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUK5pE5x_6A OK that was easy. See what you can do with this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmsyYyUHZ_o&feature=fvw
Again just use roots and get two roots per measure. Yea you gotta know where the notes are on your fretboard.
Here is where you will be in a couple of months. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4x0u...eature=related But, before you get here we will have to learn what notes are in each of those chords. Not a step for a stepper, but, best taken up after you get that other stuff down. Then we will start working on doing this with out the sheet music, i.e. Jamming your groove on the fly. That will take us into the theory of harmonization and how chord progressions work in a song. From there you will have to be able to hear and recognize the chord changes in a song and know what to do over them. Like I said it's a journey. But, you've got the rest of your life, so......

That'll keep you busy for awhile. Come back when that's easy and we will figure something else for you to do. Take it in steps the above is step one.

Have fun.

fmoore60 · #8 12-10-2010, 01:32 PM

I agree Tabs are evil!! They are only for referencing first of all, you are not learning the notes and tones of the fretboard, and second if the cats you are jamming with change anything in structure of the song you are screwed! This is not to say I do not reference them on occasion, but only as a reference. Lots of great advice here "Reread all of it!"
Most importantly stop trying to play what the other guy "TABS" is playing! Put on a drum machine, CD, or any noise and open your heart, head, and fingers and let the music create. When you listen to a song mouth and/or hum the bass line, do the same thing when you play. Do not give up and set the bass down out of frustration, challenge makes us better. Seek out a teacher you have respect for, I still take lessons.
“Best advice” - Ronco - sound like Ronco not Paul, Jaco, or Marcus when you play. Smile and have fun, I have been playing 30+ years and still have "situations" that challenge, bass is a week to start playing and a lifetime to learn, but the secret is I am still having the time of my life. Don't exchange the beauty of your ride for a scowl of someone else’s opinion!!!
Heavy on the one!

swelltrain · #9 12-10-2010, 02:24 PM

Looks like a lot of the advice so far is good but general. "Spend as much time with your bass as possible playing everything you can" is certainly good advice, but probably not what you were looking for. I'm definitely NOT one of the better bassists here, but this is what I do:

You do need to know a tiny bit of theory: you need to know the major scale on your bass (at least the box). You need to know that it's constructed of intervals wwhwwwh. And you need to know the different modes that those intervals create (at least the boxes). At some point you should work out for yourself that the A minor scale is the sixth mode of the c major scale.

Now find the tonic of the song/jam. Use your ears, or ask.
Play a major third above the tonic. Does it sound like poo? Try the minor third. Make a gut decision on which sounds better to you. Lets assume the minor third sounded better. So knowing just a little theory we can assume the song is in either ii, iii, or vi. ALMOST everything is going to be in vi (aeolian). Play the aeolian scale to see if it harmonizes well. Assuming it does, you now have the tonic scale that you can think of as home. Everything else relates to that home scale. Your parent scale is just a whole step plus a half step up (where your minor third note is). You also have access to all the other modes (boxes) on your bass by relating them to your parent scale. Play 80% of your stuff in the tonic scale and use the other boxes for moments you feel you can wander. All this thinking takes time while the jam is going on, but the more you do it, the less thinking and more feeling will happen.

This will inevitably lend itself to what people will call "playing in the boxes", but it's much better than NOT playing. And it's just a step on the journey, not the destination. This is where I'm at now with my playing and I am trying to slowly breakdown the boxes and connect everything in my mind/hands better. Pacmans scale practicing advice (in another thread) is working wonders. Good luck. -s

recreate.me · #10 12-12-2010, 01:43 PM

I was this way for a while too. When i started playing bass it was basically because my buddy needed a bass player and i was interested in learning. I bought a bass and amp and they would just write the lines for me and i would learn them.

Whenever we were writing or doing something new i would sit in the corner and wait until they thought of what i could play. It sucked, i feel your pain man. What i did was what you hear everyone say to do: Learn scales and music theory. But basics helps heaps!

Once i learned common keys, and where those notes where located on the fretboard it was like a door opened. If you know what key the song is in (find it through trial and error if they dont know) and where those notes are located, all you have to do is keep time, and be on rhythm and it will sound pretty good. Once you get comfortable you can take risks and toss in some improve and fancy transitions.

Learn key signatures, learn note locations, and follow your guitarists hand while listening to your drummer. Thats the fastest way to be competent in a jam IMO.

Stumbo · #11 12-12-2010, 01:53 PM

Check out the link in my sig. below for some great TB info to help you out.

elgecko · #12 12-12-2010, 02:02 PM

Learn to read chord charts. Hopefully you'll start noticing recurring chord movements. Then use that in your jams...this is the super, extra simplified version.

hrodbert696 · #13 12-13-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonocMan

Folks,

I've been playing the bass on and off for a couple of years now at home but any time i meet up with my mates for a Jam and i've one massive problem. I only know tableature...

The minute a jam deviates from a song I know the tab for, I'm fumbling around the fretboard quitely trying to hit notes that sound vaguely on-key with everyone else and usually failing! - or else i just put the bass down.

HELP NEEDED!

What do I need to know to get me confidently playing in this situation, knowing that i'm at least going to hit the right notes, then maybe progressing to a point where i can add my innovations? I'm happy to put in the time into learning but just need to know where to start...

Thanks,
Conor

A lot is going to depend on what your mates are jamming on. If they're extending a song, then you need to learn the chord progression of the song rather than the tabs, then the scales to go with each chord, and you're off. You can start by playing "in the box" and then start to explore outside of it as you get more confident.

A lot of times jamming is a blues jam; blues have a few standard chord progressions, like the I-IV-V of the 12-bar blues. Learn those progressions, so that if someone says '12 -bar blues in A' you know where to go.

Or, they could be just making it up as they go. In that case, you still need to have your chord/scales down, but you either need the guitarist to call out the progression he's going to play or learn how to "follow hands." That means learning what the most common chords look like when the guitarist plays them and follow his lead. It's always worthwhile to borrow someone's cheap acoustic and a chord bible for guitar and learn a few guitar chords, if only for these reasons.

bareass · #14 12-14-2010, 08:08 AM

once you know the chords, start looking at the guitar player in your band. if you know you are supposed to be playing a G look at his hand, and know what it looks like, then the next chord is a D, take another looke, if you learn what the chords look like on a guitar, then finding the right spot is only a glance away. now obviously this doesn't work durring a solo, but for the morst part its good stuff.
if you have a piano or keyboard player in your band its even easier. learn the keys on a piano, and look at his left hand. for the most part the pinky is playing the note you should play!

again this is note always the case, but it will get you out of a jam if you don't know where you are.

learn chord progression of the songs you are playing, 9 ties out of 10 the guitar solo is done over a chorus so theres a good chance that if your lost and the guitar is soloing, you can play the chorus.

if none of these work, just ask.

Icculus · #15 12-14-2010, 08:40 AM

One thing hrodbert said that I think is important is to stay in the box and move out of it when you feel confident. It's important to know when to stay at home and when to go off.

No one wants to get looked at as a simple bass player who's limited to playing just roots and occasional pentantonic licks, but I guarantee you it's better sounding than a player who is taking too many risks and playing the wrong notes for a majority of the time.

GreggBummer · #16 12-14-2010, 08:52 AM

I'm going to reiterate what was said above, but from a different point of view:

I don't knock tabs. I read music, but I occasionally find use for tabs. Learning to read music is important. However, learning to read is different from learning basic theory. (Here is where I get into trouble). You don't HAVE to read music. You can learn chord theory and scales without being able to read well. It is certainly easier to study music by being able to read it.

I play in a "jam band". I would say that my style of jamming revolves around chords. I jam on the notes inside the chords being played. I know that I can play the root, third, fifth of a major chord... and everything is going to be A-OK.

Learning your intervals and how they relate to chords really helps. After a while, you start to "hear" the notes in the chord. All you have to do harmonize. It takes practice. Even learning the triads, the basic building blocks of chords, will get you places.

Last: Don't be afraid to play the wrong note. If you do (I do all the time) I just play until I find the right one. Most of the time no one notices. You learn from it.

TSkills · #17 12-14-2010, 09:04 AM

This is all well and good, but it's not gonna help you for tonight's jam session. So here's something to keep in mind while you're learning the rest of the great info that's been posted: PENTATONICS! Learn the major and minor pents (you can do it in one night, trust me) and just jam those over whatever is being played. You'd be amazed how well those 5 notes can sound!

fmoore60 · #18 12-14-2010, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreggBummer

Last: Don't be afraid to play the wrong note. If you do (I do all the time) I just play until I find the right one. Most of the time no one notices. You learn from it.

Here is a good one! Think of this; if you play a wrong note, you are only one fret either side from a right note. Might not be the best choice note, but a right one! Kick back let the music fly! If it is wrong just don't do it again, or do it again and they will think you are a Jazz virtuoso!

baileyboy · #19 12-14-2010, 09:14 AM

Take lessons from a pro that can show you proper technique and how to read music.

pickle · #20 12-14-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

THIS!!!!

As a n00b, learning how to basically read chord charts is darned good idea.

Also, learn your basic playing positions - 1/4/5, that sort of thing. And learn tunes by ear - that will improve your ear (big shock, right) and be fun.

do you mean guitar chord charts or bass chord charts. im a noob and im not sure what you mean.