Getting "lost" in a song.

[GhostKey]

This has really been bugging me today.

With simple pop songs, I can easily remember song structure and "lead the band" into changes, if that makes sense.

But I noticed with some progressive songs I've finished writing in the past few days, I tend to sit back and go "ah, now is when that riff comes in". I'm becoming lost in song structures that are not far too complex. The songs themselves are 7 minutes tops, and I'm relying on other band members for direction, who themselves don't yet know the material.

So I was wondering; Is this a case of not knowing the material well enough? Is there anything specifically I can try to help overcome this?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by GhostKey

This has really been bugging me today.

With simple pop songs, I can easily remember song structure and "lead the band" into changes, if that makes sense.

But I noticed with some progressive songs I've finished writing in the past few days, I tend to sit back and go "ah, now is when that riff comes in". I'm becoming lost in song structures that are not far too complex. The songs themselves are 7 minutes tops, and I'm relying on other band members for direction, who themselves don't yet know the material.

So I was wondering; Is this a case of not knowing the material well enough? Is there anything specifically I can try to help overcome this?

Write simpler chord progressions. LOL Yes, IMO it's not knowing the material well enough.
I think we all get lost from time to time. I'm Country so I grab a tonic root five and hang on till I recognize where I am. Or the tonic pentatonic is a good crutch till you find your place.

[Joe Nerve]

Originally Posted by GhostKey

So I was wondering; Is this a case of not knowing the material well enough? Is there anything specifically I can try to help overcome this?

Yes, and yes. If you want to play that kind of music but you're messing it up, the only answer is to practice more. If you're not willing to put the practice time into making sure you know it inside out, upside down, and sideways (even while the other guys are screwing up), then as mentioned jokingly by Malcomlm, simplify the music.

Helps if the other guys know it the same way, but you only have control over what you choose to do. When there's complicated material, if one person screws up, and the rest of the band is already on shakey ground, everybody starts questioning themselves and trainwreck after trainwreck will happen.

It takes me days sometimes to make sure I know songs as solidly as I need to. And the notion of one person leading in the changes is something I think you ought to get rid of, unless it's jamming kind of material and you're all running off of each others cues. But it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.

[shastaband]

My jazz group does hundreds of songs with complex changes.
No way my feeble 1960s-damaged brain could remember them all.

Our solution— CHARTS! Yes, sheet music. Write it down.

As I learned in grad school, the dullest pencil has a better memory than the sharpest mind.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by GhostKey

Is this a case of not knowing the material well enough? Is there anything specifically I can try to help overcome this?

Yes. I started working on tunes using this method several years ago and my ability to remember tunes a hear my way through tunes has increased many times over. Not a quick fix but a surefire solution.

[IncX]

i actually find myself lost on pop songs with 3 chords and verse chorus verse....

strangely, in my death metal band where there are too many parts that its like 4 songs pieced together, im always the one who remembers the parts.

i think it must be because it takes me 3 minutes to learn the 3 chord pop song and move on, while a week to get the muscle memory in the death metal songs... the sequence ends up sinking in a lot deeper cause i am always listening and learning the riffs.

[GhostKey]

Thanks. I already have it written as sheet music and guitar pro tab. What I'm doing now is memorising song structure and writing it down, to help it stick in my mind.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by GhostKey

So I was wondering; Is this a case of not knowing the material well enough? Is there anything specifically I can try to help overcome this?

Yeah practice more. I'm always writing ideas and lines in GuitarPro and sometimes I have to slow them down to learn to play them. And yes, its embarrassing having to halt an original jam because the author can't play his own songs!