The Girl From Ipanema

stephanie · #1 07-31-2002, 01:21 PM

I'm not too familiar with Brazilian music and was just given this tune to make up a bassline to.

I can recall the verse of the song and am not finding a problem with it, but then it hits quarter-note triplets in the B section and I get lost on the rhythm. I am stuck on what kind of rhythmic feel the bass should have here.

Not trying to cheat

but any suggestions?

Thanks,
Stephanie

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #2 07-31-2002, 01:38 PM

EPIPHANY,

In the Key of "F", the changes to the A section are:

//Fma7.../Fma7.../G7#4.../G7#4/Gmi7.../Gb7#4.../Fma7.../Gb7#4...//

While the bridge is:

//GbMa7.../GbMa7.../B7.../B7.../F#mi7.../F#mi7.../D7.../D7.../
/Gmi7.../Gmi7.../Eb7.../Eb7.../Ami7.../D7.../Gmi.../C7 (orGb7)...//

The form is AABA. There are of course lots of alternate changes that you can use, but these are the basic ones.

The basic standard beat to this song is Bossa Nova. While there are many ways to play this, one of the most common is to play the following rhythm in each measure: Dotted Quarter..8th...Dotted Quarter...8th// with the root of each chord on "one" and the "& of four", and the fifth of the chord on the "& of two" and "three".

Hope this helps.

DURRL

stephanie · #3 07-31-2002, 03:27 PM

Thanks DURRL, that's exactly what I was looking for! We didn't have time to look over the song at my lesson cuz we were out of time (actually way overtime

), heh. But my teacher briefly mentioned about how this type of music uses the root and 5th and he played a little line. I know he mentioned about rhythm but I totally forgot what he said by the time I got home.

Anyway, thanks again

Stephanie

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #4 07-31-2002, 03:33 PM

You're most welcome, sis. BTW, I forgot to mention that on every "A" section except for the one leading to the bridge, the chord in the last measure is usually a Gb7#4 rather than an FMa7. Going into the bridge, the "A" section ends with two measures of Fma7. I edited my initial post to reflect this change - just remember to alter the last measure of "A" going into the bridge.

gruffpuppy · #5 07-31-2002, 05:37 PM

Thanks, I really needed that song stuck in my head.
I'm going to be walking with a bossa groove all night.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #6 07-31-2002, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SNIFFPOPPY
Thanks, I really needed that song stuck in my head.
I'm going to be walking with a bossa groove all night.

Hey, it could be worse...I mean, somebody might have asked for the changes to Journey's "Wheel in the Sky" or something, and THEN where would you be? Huh? Think about it.

gruffpuppy · #7 07-31-2002, 08:18 PM

Thanks again, why do I feel like I was just set up?
Bassturd.

stephanie · #8 08-01-2002, 01:42 AM

Thanks DURRL for letting me know of the edit. I tried working on this tonite. Heh, for some reason I'm finding it hard. Well, I'm playing what you gave me and mixed up a few rhythms of my own. But it's kinda boring if I play that same rhythm the whole way through, isn't it? Or is it ok to do so?

Gruffpuppy: heh, sorry about that. The silly song's stuck in my head too. Even worse, I have my mom singing it now. Last week it was "Summertime" and she was singing that the whole week. I wish my teacher would give me a song without lyrics.

jazzbo · #9 08-01-2002, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Hey, it could be worse...I mean, somebody might have asked for the changes to Journey's "Wheel in the Sky" or something, and THEN where would you be? Huh? Think about it.

Do you know them? I can't get the bridge!

[humming to self]

wheel in the sky keeps on turnin' ... won't be too long hmm hmm hmm hm .... ooh the wheel in the sky keeps tu-ur-ur-urin' ... wheel in the sky keeps me yearnin'

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #10 08-01-2002, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jazzbo

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Hey, it could be worse...I mean, somebody might have asked for the changes to Journey's "Wheel in the Sky" or something........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you know them?

Unfortunately, I do.

I can't get the bridge...

And you're a better man for it, trust me.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #11 08-01-2002, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stephanie
Thanks DURRL for letting me know of the edit. I tried working on this tonite. Heh, for some reason I'm finding it hard. Well, I'm playing what you gave me and mixed up a few rhythms of my own. But it's kinda boring if I play that same rhythm the whole way through, isn't it? Or is it ok to do so?

Absolutely, it's boring as hell unless you are a master bassist, and even then - in my humble opinion - the bassline would still be pretty boring. The old "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" feel is just a starting point. With my students, I usually teach concepts in "deconstructing" these kinds of basslines by tying some of the values together (this is easier to do WITH a good drummer than without).

Unfortunately, illustrating ties in text such as we are limited to here at TB is one of the most difficult things to do, so I won't attempt a ton of illustrations. For starters, try playing your roots and 5ths on the following parts of the beat:

1..&of2....4

1..&of2..&of3
R....5.......R - (or)
R....5.......5

1..&of2...&of4

etc...and mix it up. If your time is good, this will help loosen the feel up a little bit.

Also, anywhere the chord changes last two bars apiece, you can play a two bar pattern, such as

//1..&of2...4/.&of1..3.4.//
//R....5.....5/...R.....5.5.//

etc., which can get the root off of the down beat of the second measure. Also keep im mind that you have several octave displacements of both the root and fifth to work with to bring variety to your line. It's amazing how many subtle permutations you can come up with by simply playing up to the fifth or 8ve in on measure and then down to the same in the next.

JimK · #12 08-01-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Fitzgerald
...the bassline would still be pretty boring. The old "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" feel is just a starting point.

I thought that was the even 'older' "Song For My Father" by Horace Silver?

Good post, Chris-
Glad to see someone else attempt rhythmic notation at this site...
I would only add this-
Don't forget you can play the 5th above & below the root; same goes for 'varying the root'-

Bar 1
l1--&of2--4-l-&of1--3-4-l
1= root(say, "C" @3rd fret/A-string)
&of2 = 5("G" @5th fret/d-string)
4 = 5("G" @3rd fret/E-string)

Bar 2
&of1 = root("C" @3rd fret/A-string)
3 = 5("G" @ 5th fret/D-string)
4 = root("C" @5th fret/G-string)

Eventually, try employing some b5s & b9s(as 'lead-in/approach tones).

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #13 08-01-2002, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimK

I thought that was the even 'older' "Song For My Father" by Horace Silver?

Yeah, but my little sister EPIPHANY's just a pup...I figured there was a better chance that she's heard "Rikki" than "Father".

Good post, Chris-
Glad to see someone else attempt rhythmic notation at this site...
I would only add this-
Don't forget you can play the 5th above & below the root; same goes for 'varying the root'-

Bar 1
l1--&of2--4-l-&of1--3-4-l
1= root(say, "C" @3rd fret/A-string)
&of2 = 5("G" @5th fret/d-string)
4 = 5("G" @3rd fret/E-string)

Bar 2
&of1 = root("C" @3rd fret/A-string)
3 = 5("G" @ 5th fret/D-string)
4 = root("C" @5th fret/G-string)

Thanks, Jim...that was what I was trying to get across, but I was just too lazy. But if I ever get a scanner, LOOK OUT!

Eventually, try employing some b5s & b9s(as 'lead-in/approach tones).

Also right on the money. You listening, sis?

**Pacman** · #14 08-01-2002, 02:20 PM

I always enjoy using different chord tones in the bassline, while sticking closer to the traditional bossa feel. That way, the band is still getting the feel they desire, and I can try all sorts of 'pretty notes'.

stephanie · #15 08-01-2002, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DURRL PEAS
Also right on the money. You listening, sis?

Yup. I'm here, copying all this stuff down (sucks not to have a printer

). Heh, and I'm not sure if I've heard either of those songs, maybe just the titles. Oh well. I'm new at all this.

Wow. I come back today not expecting all these replies! Thank you for all the help. I'll try and see what I can do with this song.

Thanks again,
Stephanie

JimK · #16 08-02-2002, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh Walsh
Antonio Carlos Jobim to Steve Perry!

Never thought I'd see the day...

Did Jobim ever play with Stan Getz?

If so-

1)Jobim played with Getz who...
2)Played with Tony Williams who...(Captain Marvel)
3)Played with Carlos Santana who(Swing Of Delight)...
4)Played with Neal Schon who(Santana/Buddy Miles LIVE)...
5)Played with Steve Perry.

jazzbo · #17 08-02-2002, 01:45 PM

Oooooooh. MUSICAL six degrees of separation. THAT, could be fun.

peteroberts · #18 08-02-2002, 01:59 PM

OK, this should be kinda fun...let's see someone link Thelonius Monk and Eddie Van Halen through six degrees of musical separation!

Richard Lindsey · #19 08-02-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peteroberts
OK, this should be kinda fun...let's see someone link Thelonius Monk and Eddie Van Halen through six degrees of musical separation!

OK, how about this:

1. Monk played with Coltrane (Five Spot)

2. Coltrane played with Miles (Kind of Blue)

3. Miles played with Quincy Jones (Miles and Quincy Live at Montreux)

4. Quincy produced Michael Jackson (Thriller)

5. Jackson worked with Van Halen ("Beat It")

QED.

EDIT: Don't wanna hijack Stephanie's thread, though--maybe we should take this outside?

JimK · #20 08-02-2002, 03:49 PM

Good one, Richard.

I've played this "game"(?) before & it all became really too easy-
Everybody has played with Miles!
(As you have already demonstrated).

...I agree, though, let's "take it outside"!
(I have a couple up my sleeve I'd like to see some of you crack)

Off to Misc?