Going beyond the root?

[Bass-desires]

**Mod sorry I think I posted this in the wrong fourm....I think G.I is better? Thanks!

Hey folks,

Currently I play in a church band and have been sticking mostly to the roots, although some songs have a sweet bass riff, most don't.

I want to know how, and when I can expand that root. I love playing but, plucking 4 notes for 5+ mins gets a little boring.

I understand that is just what the music needs somedays, but there are times where I could spread my wings, but don't know how to.

How do you guys do it? Scales? Modes?

Thanks

[J. Crawford]

Very simple. Just expand, and stick within the "box". I use these parts of the major and minor scales:
Octave,
7th, or flatted 7th A LOT!,
and the 5th below the root

Watch THIS VIDEO over and over.

[JavierBass]

Chords, start using the 3, 5, 7s of a chord instead of only the root. Know all your dominant, major, minor, diminished, half diminished, augmented, and altered chords. Above all, use your ear to determine what sounds good.

[Dogbertday]

learn La Bamba and analyze it... also "what I like about you" ...and "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay"

All three are very different approaches to simple chord progressions and using simple varying lines to move between the different chords...

[Bassgrinder77]

3 bits of advice:
1. Use your ear. If it sounds good, it is good. Always use you ear.
2. It depends on the song. What you play should be informed by the chords and the chord progression of the song.
You have to start paying attention to the chords that lady is playing on her keyboard over there, LOL. You have to know what notes are in those chords and then you can riff off them and the progression. You'll start recognizing patterns.
You're probably given sheet music - right? Well, dig into those chords. Just because your're a bass player doesn't mean you have to be a harmonic dunce.
3. Read up on diatonic chord/scale theory. After you understand that, you'll have a basic understanding on which to build (and ask questions).
Scales are worthless unless you know the contexts in which they apply and relate.

[Dogbertday]

sorry... forgot to add my +1 to what everyone else is saying.


I meant to say

+1 ...and here's some examples of how you can still sound very in the box but keep it interesting

[kingbee]

I think the best place to start is to learn your chord tones and your scales. Nail the root of the chord on the first beat of each measure and then look for creative ways to add tension or movement to the progression. If you take the classic 1-6-2-5 progression (C Am Dm G), you can play something like this:

--------|--------|--------|--------|
--------|-------2|0-------|--------|
3---3-2-|0-2-3--|--3-2-0-|--0-1-2|
--3-----|--------|--------|3-------|

This little 16-note phrase uses chord tones, scale tones and even a chromatic passing tone to create a sense of movement from beginning to end. Once you know how to spell chords (C=C,E,G; Am=A,C,E; etc.) and know your scales (CDEFGABC) then you can look for ways to move from root to root during the chord changes. Find some songs that have simple, repetitive progressions and just experiment with them until you find some basslines that you like.

[Bass-desires]

Awesome, thanks folks for the help. I will work on spelling out the chords and getting familiar with them on the fret board, lots to learn, always lots to learn.

Is there any advice on learning them? (The chord notes) Or just practice and brain washing?

Thanks!

P.S I shouldn't have watched youtube "Tal" videos....I can't get her out of my head.... (growl)

[kingbee]

Yeah, there's no substitute for lots and lots of practice.

Learning a little guitar or piano helps with spelling and hearing chords. If your band plays in a lot of the common Praise and Worship keys, you'll want to start learning your C, G and D scales. The chords for each scale are built in ascending thirds. That basically means you start on the note of the chord and then play the third and fifth notes up.

If you practice yours scales this way and try to name each note as you play it, you'll start to internalize it. So instead of just playing G A B C D E F# G, play G B D A C E B D F# etc. until you're hearing it in your head before you play it.

[Rudreax]

What kind music do you listen to? Try listening to bass players that regularly go beyond roots (such as Jamerson). Try to cope their lines and incorporate them into your playing. More than anything though, LISTEN. You gotta have the idea behind it in your head before you try to do something you don't usually do.

[Bass-desires]

"You gotta have the idea behind it in your head before you try to do something you don't usually do."

That is really the crux of the issue for me; How to actually 'do' it. I know I can play CEG instead of just C, but putting it into practice per say is where I am unsure about.

[Deacon_Blues]

The others have given great tips, so I'm here to say something else. Root notes can be a lot of fun too. The fun part comes when you realize how much you can change the root note pattern simply by changing the timing. You can play a driving beat and play right on top of every note where it mathematically should be, or play more laid-back, giving the song a relaxed feel by playing slightly after that mathematically "correct position. Also experiment with note lengths - go from short percussive notes (staccato) to legato, which means there is virtually no pause in between the notes. Or try combinations. Experiment with dynamics and emphasize certain notes more than others.

With this I'm just saying that there's just so much more to it than "just playing the root notes".

[Bass-desires]

And you are absolutely right! I have been doing that lately, and can make things more fun by changing the speed and/or delay to create a buildup, or tear down of the songs. I have been also throwing in triplets with my ring finger on the faster songs.

I dig the little things of the craft, I am trying to expand my horizons and make myself a more dynamic bassist.

I haven't even been playing a year yet, but I want to keep growing even in little ways, you know; That riff you could never nail, that odd time that always kicked your tail, and the tunings/effects you never tried.

I wish I had started much sooner than I did, but damn its been a great ride.

Thanks for the info, I'm going to get some chord listings with the notes and work on getting those into the gray matter.

[Rudreax]

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

The others have given great tips, so I'm here to say something else. Root notes can be a lot of fun too. The fun part comes when you realize how much you can change the root note pattern simply by changing the timing. You can play a driving beat and play right on top of every note where it mathematically should be, or play more laid-back, giving the song a relaxed feel by playing slightly after that mathematically "correct position. Also experiment with note lengths - go from short percussive notes (staccato) to legato, which means there is virtually no pause in between the notes. Or try combinations. Experiment with dynamics and emphasize certain notes more than others.

With this I'm just saying that there's just so much more to it than "just playing the root notes".

+1. The real essence of all music everywhere is found it the rhythm, so changing that up will definitely help you.

[guido2sc]

Originally Posted by Rudreax

+1. The real essence of all music everywhere is found it the rhythm, so changing that up will definitely help you.

Great words, they ring true. Appreciate the simple things such as patterns and higher octaves. Work in the upper registers with your root and build patterns by practicing. You can even build from the simplicity of 12-bar blues and try the different notes in different succession. I ran just about every possible combination of notes from the 12-bar structure and actually found that I can jump into a tune without even knowing the song by getting the root notes and working my patterns around them.

The guys that say "if it sounds good it is good" nailed it. Spot on...

[bomofiglio]

Here is what I've learned so far;

1. Roots
2. 5ths
3. Sharps and flats in between (if the song goes from a to b, throw in an a# in between sometimes
4.Get your hands on the vocals melody, and throw in some back up notes to it.(Robert deleo does this a lot, and it sounds great)
5. +1 to the other responses

Good luck and have fun!

[megadan]

Start easy. 5ths will pretty much always sound good, and can give your basslines some movement. After that I like to add in 7th below (that's 2 frets behind the root) for a quick turn around, sounds great.

After that start getting into some 3rds or 6ths if you like, and start following your drummer's fills on the same notes.

[bass player 48]

Originally Posted by Bass-desires

How do you guys do it? Scales? Modes?

No, personally, I think about chords WAY more than I think about scales or modes while I'm playing.

don't just think of the progression as: A - G -D - C

Know whether the chords are major or minor.

So, you need to know the progression is really: Am - G - D - C

then you can think about your A minor arpegio on the first chord and your G major arpegio on the second chord and so on and break away from just playing A G D and C root notes.

As somebody else said, when you don't know if the chord is major or minor and you only know the root - it's always safe to play riffs with the octave and the fifth. You Awlays have the octave and the 5th, both above and below the root, right under your fingers and can do quite a lot of riffing with those notes.

[bass player 48]

Originally Posted by Jordasch

Watch THIS VIDEO over and over.

Nice vid. I love Bootsy.., but you know, he'd explained his approach to funk in song a long time ago:

"hey, count-dawg, why don't you uh.. count it off for us?"

"Huh?"
"count it of for ya?"
"ONE!"

(chicka chicka chicka)

"ONE!"

(funka dunka funka)

"ONE!"

(funka dunka funka)

"ONE"
"ONE"
"ONE"
"ONE"


...The word is out, about the count, it's traveling by mouth, he's amazing... he's so amazing, lining up for the count...

[WJGreer]

My thoughts:

On its own, substituting the 5th makes little harmonic contribution compared to playing the root. It's not really even a substitution. If you happen to play the 5th below the root, it does tend to sound like a segue to another musical phrase, but aside from that it's not a very interesting departure.

You can always sub the 3rd or the minor 7th in a minor chord. The major 7th is harmonically acceptable in a major 7th chord, but if you play the one that's a half step below the root it will sound like a mistake. Playing one at least two octaves higher sounds better but sounds less like a substitution and more like a fill or flourish note.

In a situation where you might play 4 bars of pedal 8th notes on the root, try any of the following sometime:

• Pedal two measures on the root, then one measure on the 2nd, then one measure on the 5th
• Pedal one measure on the third, one on the sixth, one on the second, one on the 5th
• Pedal all four measures on the minor 7th, then maybe another four measures on the 7th, or as long as you can stand it, then go back to the root. This is a great way to provide some tension and release. A good soloist will hear what you are doing and run with it.

Good luck!