Going to go tabless and try a bassline on my own

[Minotauros]

I know that at this point I can't go wrong with R 3 5 (R b3 5 for minor) or R if the measure a chord is playing is short, and the song is 4/4, blah blah blah...

I have been noodling around with Night Moves and Instant Karma. For each one I am using the root notes and playing the bassline in lockstep with the acoustic guitar in Night Moves and piano in Instant Karma. Essentially I'm playing the main rhythm w/R. It really does sound pretty good, and it's fun.

I found tabs for them, just to get me started, but now I think I can make up my own bass riff. Let's take House of the Rising Sun, 6/8... 1 2 3 4 5 6 on ||: Am C D F Am C E E7 :|| E7 is actually optional, sounds good with or without.

Could or would my riff be 1 - - 4 - - (- is a rest letting the note sustain), or could I do as in Night Moves and Instant Karma, play the bass as 1 2 3 4 5 6 using only the root, or does this 6/8 time lend itself nicely to R 3 5 (R b3 5 for Am)?

I may be answering my own question but I think the R 3 5 (R b3 5 for Am) is probably the best, with a fuller sound than just R on the 1 & 4 beats.

Sorry to be asking for a free lesson.

[MalcolmAmos]

IMO you logic is sound. House of the Rising Sun does lend itself to arpeggios. Might substitute the blues scale R-b3-4-#4-5-b7 for that 6 beat feel. See what you think.

Tabs, then patterns, then playing what you hear in your head (melody). From your other posts I think you can kiss tabs good-by.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Might substitute the blues scale R-b3-4-#4-5-b7 for that 6 beat feel. See what you think.

Ooh! Yeah!

So I would use that scale for both the major and minor chords? I'm not familiar with blues (yet). I think one of them is the "blue note". Is that the b3?

Tabs, then patterns, then playing what you hear in your head (melody). From your other posts I think you can kiss tabs good-by.

Yes, I think in the very near future. At the very least they would be my own tabs I transcribe. I'm like the mad scientist who comes up with something, doesn't write in his notes, then forgets the formula. lol

I think I'm going to tab out this bass line. Thanks.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by Minotauros

Ooh! Yeah!

So I would use that scale for both the major and minor chords? I'm not familiar with blues (yet). I think one of them is the "blue note". Is that the b3?

Blues scale does have a minor 3rd but the blue note is the passing tone between the 4th and 5th...


------------1-3----
-----1-2-3--------
1-4---------------

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

Blues scale does have a minor 3rd but the blue note is the passing tone between the 4th and 5th...


------------1-3----
-----1-2-3--------
1-4---------------

OK, thanks.

[TSkills]

Ah...the "devil's note" itself...the ol' tritone...

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes the Blues scale works over both a major or minor chord progression. My six string guitar improv usually includes the Blues scale at one point or another. It's just a fun scale.

I've not really used the Blues scale that much with my bass lines yet, however, I do use the major pentatonic scale a lot. I'm still working on extending a five beat pentatonic over into the next measure of a 4/4 timed song. Just something I'm not comfortable with just yet, but, something I use when the chord changes are hard to pick out.

[Minotauros]

I think (hope) I got it. I'm sure the song is in Am, with brief key changes for the Dmaj and Emaj, which are not in Am.

So, playing the Am blues scale over the chords gives me A C D D# E G for my riff...


..Each chord....or..Each chord
G|-------------| G|-------------|
D|-------------| D|-----------4-|
A|-0-3-5-6-----| A|-----5-6-7---|
E|---------0-3-| E|-5-8---------|


G|-----|------|-----|------|------|------|------|------|
D|-----|---E--|-----|--G---|------|------|------|------|
A|-----|------|--C--|------|--D---|--D#--|--E---|------|
E|-----|------|-----|------|--A---|------|------|--C---|


None of these look anything like the "box".

If this is it or not, and someone corrects me (for which I will be forever grateful ) I can't wait to try it.

Btw, I know I can play this riff other places on the fretboard. http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord...-note-printer/ I'll experiment to see what sounds best.

[Chris K]

It all depends on what you want to hear... a wide choice of notes is possible. In House OtRS the 'problem' for the bass player is that the melody is following the root notes of the chords a - c - d - f. If you also play those, you create ugly octave parallels. You could try to break that spell by playing more notes, using either scales or arpeggio's. But my advice is to focus on the fundamentals, to always create a simple harmonically interesting bassline that is in counterpoint with the melody. On top of that basic line, you can add smaller 'ornamental' stuff, but try to keep it simple.

In House OfRS prefer the following:

Chords: |Am |C |D |F |Am | C |E(7)
Melody: |a-a-b- | c -e- |d-a-|a |a-a | g-e- |e
Basic bass line: |a |g |f# |f |a | c |e

No doubt you'll notice that in the first four bars the bass goes down, where the melody moves upward. In the next bars it's the other way around.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Chris K

But my advice is to focus on the fundamentals, to always create a simple harmonically interesting bassline that is in counterpoint with the melody.

Yes, I have heard that in many songs: the bass line is in "contrast" to the melody and/or rhythm.

In House OfRS prefer the following:

Chords: |Am |C |D |F |Am | C |E(7)
Melody: |a-a-b- | c -e- |d-a-|a |a-a | g-e- |e
Basic bass line: |a |g |f# |f |a | c |e

No doubt you'll notice that in the first four bars the bass goes down, where the melody moves upward. In the next bars it's the other way around.

Yes, I see that. I'm going to try this. In fact, I'm so bored at work, I'm going to tab this out.

I tried the bassline I came up with using the blues scale, and it just didn't sound right. I thought at some point instead of following the melody and/or rhythm of a song, I'd learn to use a counterpoint.

Good stuff. Thanks Chris.

[DudeistMonk]

Originally Posted by Chris K

It all depends on what you want to hear... a wide choice of notes is possible. In House OtRS the 'problem' for the bass player is that the melody is following the root notes of the chords a - c - d - f. If you also play those, you create ugly octave parallels. You could try to break that spell by playing more notes, using either scales or arpeggio's. But my advice is to focus on the fundamentals, to always create a simple harmonically interesting bassline that is in counterpoint with the melody. On top of that basic line, you can add smaller 'ornamental' stuff, but try to keep it simple.

In House OfRS prefer the following:

Chords: |Am |C |D |F |Am | C |E(7)
Melody: |a-a-b- | c -e- |d-a-|a |a-a | g-e- |e
Basic bass line: |a |g |f# |f |a | c |e

No doubt you'll notice that in the first four bars the bass goes down, where the melody moves upward. In the next bars it's the other way around.

Okay this thread just suddenly became very interesting to me and one thing I need to work on is inversions and bass "composition" Ie: not always playing the root on the 1.

So for clarification what you did there was change the root for the Cmaj and Dmaj chords creating a 2nd and then a 1st inversion? Was there anything more to your thought process?

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by DudeistMonk

Okay this thread just suddenly became very interesting to me and one thing I need to work on is inversions and bass "composition" Ie: not always playing the root on the 1.

So for clarification what you did there was change the root for the Cmaj and Dmaj chords creating a 2nd and then a 1st inversion? Was there anything more to your thought process?

Yes, there was. I studied classical harmony and counterpoint. The general recipe in many classical compositions to create nice harmonies is to start with the melody (or soprano, which means 'upper'), then the bass line, and only after that write everything that comes in between, alto en tenor voices as they are mostly called. All of these voices are primarily to be seen as ('horizontal') LINES that each deserve attention for 'melodic' qualities. The chords are 'just' the result of the coincedences of these lines. My favorite example is the Adagio from Mozart's clarinet concerto. Check out the tremendous bass lines there!

As you won't fail to notice, there is some melodic quality to the proposed bassline of my previous post, as it proceeds scale-like through the harmonic functions, which is a good approach, especially for slower songs.

In popular music, notation is often simplified to lead sheets and/or chords sheets, providing very little information on the accompanying voices. Chord sheets are often seen as untouchable - I like to see them as ball and chain . My appeal is to always go for a nice bassline, and if you have to, or just like to alter the chords, DO IT. Tell your guitarists and keyboardist to not be dogmatic on chords, but to acknowledge the beauty of your bass line! In jazz music altering chords is common practice. Another reason for not being too shy on changes is that many pop musicians, especially from the earlier stages, had little understanding of harmony, so some polishing might come in handy.

On the other hand, the Animals' version (that was actually an arrangement of a much older ballad) has a gorgeous feeling of spell... So maybe playing it just like that is the way to go. However, these arrangements are already there... If you want to create something for yourself, create your very own version!

As bonus feature (to reward you for reading this lengthy post)
I'll give you a second possibility for the last four bars of House that remained a bit tame in the previous example. But to play it like that, you will have to change a chord

They
call the Rising Sun!
Am B+ E7
e d# e (bass)

Harmonically this is more logical, because B(+) - E7 functions as ii (alterated to II+) - V7.
The original chord was G. As G+ = B+ = D#+ this might become understandeble. The melody note g fits in nicely.

To learn more on harmonies, check out posts by guys like Richard Lindsey, JTE, Onlyclave, to name a few. Maybe one of them is already planning to write that in my above example B+ should be written as D#+, because + chords (like dim chords) are to be named after their bass note, to give a clue on how the bassline should be played. Another option is to use a slash sign. For the entire line that would make:
Am - C/G - D/F# - F - Am/E - D#+ - E7

It's a good idea to arrange everything you play and write it out this way on your chords sheets.

Good luck.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Chris K

In popular music, notation is often simplified to lead sheets and/or chords sheets, providing very little information on the accompanying voices. Chord sheets are often seen as untouchable...

Not to this budding guitarist and bassist. I've seen chord sheets that made me say "What!? Why did they even bother?" and I've tinkered with them.

On the other hand, the Animals' version (that was actually an arrangement of a much older ballad) has a gorgeous feeling of spell... So maybe playing it just like that is the way to go. However, these arrangements are already there... If you want to create something for yourself, create your very own version!

I think a lot of people don't realize it's a very old American folk tune and that The Animals did not write it; theirs is just one of 1,000 arrangements. As much as I like the sound of theirs, and I like the arpeggio sound, it's giving me a devil of a time to do arpeggio. Yet I can strum it in 6/8 perfectly fine.

It's a good idea to arrange everything you play and write it out this way on your chords sheets.

Good luck.

I can't live any other way.