Going through the basics, almost done! =) Need scale and misc help

[tpmiller08]

So I tore through the basics of music theory. I forgot alot, or just f'ed it up. Nice little refresher course was cool.

I was wondering if anyone has a buncha scales besides the C Major, the modes (IE dorian, phygian, mixodilan, ect, ect)

Like the different blues scales (blues scale, blues minor), the hindu scale, anything.

Also, I know its basically the same formula, but I would like a list of intervals past the perfect octave. I believe it goes minor 9th, major 9th, minor 10th, major 10th, perfect 11th, audmented 11th / dimished 12th, perfect 12th, minor 13th, major 13th, minor 14th, major 14th, perfect 15th
If im off on this let me know


Also, someone on another post mentioned, the key of F has a Bb. Why isnt this called A#?

Any help would be appreciated =) Thanks TB'ers!


-Troy

[skeptikal]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

Also, someone on another post mentioned, the key of F has a Bb. Why isnt this called A#?

-Troy

Because the key of F already has an 'A' in it.

F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F

[doot doot doot]

For all your scale needs: http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord...-note-printer/

You've got your compound intervals right but you don't need to go up past 13 because those notes are never really found in chords. The 14 is the same as a 7 an octave up and you're usually going to have a 7 in the chord already. 15 is the octave obviously and is completely unnecessary.

[Asher S]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

I was wondering if anyone has a buncha scales besides the C Major, the modes (IE dorian, phygian, mixodilan, ect, ect)

Google these:
major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Kumoi (another pentatonic)
double diminished
melodic minor
natural minor

... that's truly enough to keep you busy for a few decades

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by Asher S

Google these:
major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Kumoi (another pentatonic)
double diminished
melodic minor
natural minor

... that's truly enough to keep you busy for a few decades

I know them all Just refreshing on them. I got my bass books stolen, so I didn't have a reference.

Didnt know about Kumoi though. Petty sweet. And how come no one ever told me how bad arse the arabic scale is?! heh

Thanks all, great stuff, helped me a bunch.

Im curious though. Now that I have these things done and solid :

Scales and modes
Chords
Intervals
Cycle of fifths / fourths
Harmonics
12 Bar Blues
Learning standard notation
Relative Minor
all that good stuff

Where do I go next? I learned everything and played it in every key. Should I move on to a different style? ( I play rock bass right now, with some dabbling in blues. Don't wanna learn to much blues from reading. I think it should be taught orally or from seeing it played. Just makes it cooler for me=)

Or should I just call me self sen-sei, and fight ninjas with my bass-ness? lol


-Troy

[mambo4]

Sounds like you might benefit from learning a bunch of bass lines by some of the greats, and picking them them apart theory wise, seeing how they outline the chords and serve the music.

Jamerson is always fun for that...

Just make sure you learn entire songs, not just the killer riffs.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

I know them all Just refreshing on them. I got my bass books stolen, so I didn't have a reference.

Didnt know about Kumoi though. Petty sweet. And how come no one ever told me how bad arse the arabic scale is?! heh

Thanks all, great stuff, helped me a bunch.

Im curious though. Now that I have these things done and solid :

Scales and modes
Chords
Intervals
Cycle of fifths / fourths
Harmonics
12 Bar Blues
Learning standard notation
Relative Minor
all that good stuff

Where do I go next? I learned everything and played it in every key. Should I move on to a different style? ( I play rock bass right now, with some dabbling in blues. Don't wanna learn to much blues from reading. I think it should be taught orally or from seeing it played. Just makes it cooler for me=)

Or should I just call me self sen-sei, and fight ninjas with my bass-ness? lol


-Troy

Hmm, looks like you beat the final boss. Nothing left to learn now. Might as well quit bass and go conquer a new instrument. I would suggest guitar. It has a whole bunch of new scales that aren't in the bass idiom.

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Hmm, looks like you beat the final boss. Nothing left to learn now. Might as well quit bass and go conquer a new instrument. I would suggest guitar. It has a whole bunch of new scales that aren't in the bass idiom.

.....quit bass?! Eep! Just the idea makes me cry inside! lol

I keep trying to play guitar. I learned a few chords, but it doesn't hold my interest. I find it real hard to learn / play anything but bass.

Before bass, I played drums for 6 months, and guitar for like 2 weeks. I just can't get into them. There has to be more to learn about bass. I refuse that I taught myself (with the help of TB'ers, a few books, and good ol' study bass) everything I need to know. Kinda makes me sad

Guess its time to play with effects more, master what I know, and take the advice on learning a buncha songs.

-Troy

[GrindYourMind]

Sik Sweepz

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

I refuse that I taught myself (with the help of TB'ers, a few books, and good ol' study bass) everything I need to know. Kinda makes me sad

Guess its time to play with effects more, master what I know, and take the advice on learning a buncha songs.

-Troy

I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but from what I can tell, you've barely scratched the surface of what you need to know. I'm not trying to make this out to be some horrendously difficult, impossible-to-learn thing, but in truth, the list you gave above doesn't begin to cover the basics. If you don't mind a suggestion, or a couple of them, study some harmony, do some transcribing, and cultivate the ability to analyze, apply, and extend what you learn from doing this.

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but from what I can tell, you've barely scratched the surface of what you need to know. I'm not trying to make this out to be some horrendously difficult, impossible-to-learn thing, but in truth, the list you gave above doesn't begin to cover the basics. If you don't mind a suggestion, or a couple of them, study some harmony, do some transcribing, and cultivate the ability to analyze, apply, and extend what you learn from doing this.

It was a short list . I'm still learning standard notation, therefore learning transcribing as well (from what I get is that transcribing is listening to a song, figuring out the bass lines, and putting it in standard notation)
I pick up songs I hear by ear with little difficulty. It was just one of those things that I picked up on after playing and doing alot of ear training. Some things come easy, other things (like keeping time through a whole song) come harder for some, and not others.

And if I get the right meaning to harmony, doesn't that come with learning scales and intervals? Harmony is part (not all) perfect fifths and other intervals, diatonic chords, and things like that no?

And I always change songs around as I play them. Thats the cool part of being in an originals band. We take songs we want to cover, get them down exactly as its played by others, then change it to make it sound more like our style of hard rock. Except 'Aint no sunshine'....no one should change that song ever! heh

Note - not getting defensive, just making sure I'm on the right path

-Troy

[chicagodoubler]

Scales are peachy but matching them with the appropriate harmony is really where it's at.

Make sure you *really* know what to play over B7b9natural13, and which scale you would use if the 13 was flatted.

Very, very few bass players really know their harmony inside and out, and it unfortunately shows for alot of us when it comes time to solo or write melodic lines.

Arpeggiate the scales you know and match those sounds up with the basic chords-

M7
m7
m7b5 (half dim)
full dim
aug
etc...

While you're at it, life without the symmetrical scales just ain't worth living. Diminished and wholetone scales are staples of most mature improvisers. Bonus points if you can figure out the places a diminished scale will fit besides over a fully d. Don't forget melodic minor and harmonic minor, as well as their respective set of 7 modes each.

And yes... transcribe, and learn a couple thousand songs. Theory without real life application is like making out with a blow-up doll.

Good luck!

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Scales are peachy but matching them with the appropriate harmony is really where it's at.

Make sure you *really* know what to play over B7b9natural13, and which scale you would use if the 13 was flatted.

Very, very few bass players really know their harmony inside and out, and it unfortunately shows for alot of us when it comes time to solo or write melodic lines.

Arpeggiate the scales you know and match those sounds up with the basic chords-

M7
m7
m7b5 (half dim)
full dim
aug
etc...

While you're at it, life without the symmetrical scales just ain't worth living. Diminished and wholetone scales are staples of most mature improvisers. Bonus points if you can figure out the places a diminished scale will fit besides over a fully d. Don't forget melodic minor and harmonic minor, as well as their respective set of 7 modes each.

And yes... transcribe, and learn a couple thousand songs. Theory without real life application is like making out with a blow-up doll.

Good luck!

Ohhh good idea. I know my bass chords, and if I don't know one off the top of my head, it's fairly easy to break it down. But I didnt think of how to apply them to compound intervals (which is what B7b9natural13 would be right? You could use a B Major scale, B minor, then compound B major in a higher octave for the natural 13 right?)

Is there a better reference site for bass chords then bass study? It doesn't explain the natural 13 and the difference between B7 and b9.

-Troy

[chicagodoubler]

Troy, do you play a chordal instrument? A few hours at the keyboard will really open your eyes. Chords on the bass are cute but the range and technical limitations make the harmony incredibly restricted.

When I say B7b9natural13 I mean B-D#-F#-A-C-(F)-G: A dominant 7 chord with a flatted 9th and natural 13. Chord tones above the octave are called "extensions," and are vital to mature improvisation. 9=2, 13=6.


You're using classical theory terminology. Get a book on jazz theory... it will explain everything in much more user friendly terms.

[Stumbo]

Check out the link in my sig. It may help you out.

You also may want to take a music theory/composition class at the local CC or take lessons from a jazz bassist or classical musician. Maybe piano lessons might interest you.

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Grimoire-.../dp/0825821819
might be worthwhile.

[Deacon_Blues]

Without knowing anything about your knowledge level except about what you've posted here, I'd warmly recommend studies in rhythm, timing, dynamics, phrasing, expression, ear training, transcription.... There's a lot to learn... What notes you play does not matter nearly as much as HOW and WHEN you play them and in which context.

[Jim Carr]

Listen to and become deeply familiar with a lot more music. Find a challenging genre and learn/apply it. Rinse and repeat.

Since you seem to be in a band, how would you describe your musical goals in relation to that band?

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Listen to and become deeply familiar with a lot more music. Find a challenging genre and learn/apply it. Rinse and repeat.

Since you seem to be in a band, how would you describe your musical goals in relation to that band?

My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh.

I just love to play, and love to advance in bass. This is the first band I've been in. I've learned more in the past 7 months playing in a band, then I ever have playing alone for 5 and 1/2 years. I learned mostly everything I know about music theory, but applying it to a bands sound is different then just fiddling around in the ol' bed room ya know?

Im trying to figure out my goals. Never really thought about it, I just play, all the time . I have no aspirations to be a cover musician ( not knocking brother and sister musicians, just not my thing personally). Even when I do learn a song, its only a matter of time before I change it around one way or another.

I originally started playing bass to play something different, as the rock coming out now isn't really my thing. I felt like people deserved something better ya know? Once I got into bass, I wanted to learn how to express myself with the instrument. I feel I can do that now. Every small adjustment to a scale can drastically change the message your sending, I think at least.

I guess at this point I just don't know where to go. I don't listen to jazz, its not really my thing either. But if it'll help add new dynamics to my playing, maybe its time I learned some of it at least.


-Troy

[chicagodoubler]

Troy, jazz and blues vocabulary is the foundation of "American" music. 90% of the time when you take an improvisation class, you're really taking a class about Miles and Charlie Parker, etc...

Even if you don't want to learn to swing, the terminology and techniques we use from jazz is nearly universal for modern music.

One last note- what do Victor, Oteil, Meshell, Janek, Patitucci, Marcus, Jaco, and Stanley Clark have in common? Jazz, bass playing, and being awesome.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh.

I just love to play, and love to advance in bass. This is the first band I've been in. I've learned more in the past 7 months playing in a band, then I ever have playing alone for 5 and 1/2 years. I learned mostly everything I know about music theory, but applying it to a bands sound is different then just fiddling around in the ol' bed room ya know?

Im trying to figure out my goals. Never really thought about it, I just play, all the time . I have no aspirations to be a cover musician ( not knocking brother and sister musicians, just not my thing personally). Even when I do learn a song, its only a matter of time before I change it around one way or another.

I originally started playing bass to play something different, as the rock coming out now isn't really my thing. I felt like people deserved something better ya know? Once I got into bass, I wanted to learn how to express myself with the instrument. I feel I can do that now. Every small adjustment to a scale can drastically change the message your sending, I think at least.

I guess at this point I just don't know where to go. I don't listen to jazz, its not really my thing either. But if it'll help add new dynamics to my playing, maybe its time I learned some of it at least.


-Troy

Get some goals beyond "My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh."