Is this a good method for practicing arpeggios and scales?

[Matthew_84]

When I practice chords, I'll choose a key (ex. A Dorian), then I'll play the scale (one octave, ascending and descending), and then once I have the sound of it in my head then I'll go and play each scale degree in order and back down again.

Amin7, Bmin7, Cmaj7, D7, Emin7, F#min7-5, Gmaj7, Amin7

Then I'll descend back down, play the scale (without chord tones), repeat the arpeggios and then play the scale again.

After I do this, I select a tempo on the metronome that I like at the moment and then I'll think of a chord progression and just try different things out. It does help me to understand the scales, improvisation, and everything really.

My only concern is that I've developed this habit of using the same fingering patterns: I'll start any major arpeggio with my middle finger (on my fretting hand), and any minor arpeggio with my index. And, I'll play the scale in the same pattern/position every time, and play the chord degrees exactly where they fit in this pattern.

I find this makes it easier for me and I rarely have to think about what comes next, but I'm worried that I'm developing a poor technique. I feel like I'm not really learning the fretboard. I'm learning patterns, and I may end up getting lost. My warm-ups have turned into chromatic scales saying the chord names as I play to try and help learn the fretboard, but this may not be the right solution.

So I'm wondering if this is okay or if anyone has another way that I should do this? Should I keep my hand in one position for as long as I can (so the Bmin7 would be start with my ring? The Cmaj7 would start with my pinky?) But then the scale would still be in the same pattern so should I avoid this?

Also, just to mention, when I do two-octave scales, I usually start on the E string and then after playing that octave in that position (so I'm on the D string), instead of just continuing from there, I'll actually move five frets over (or so) and up a string and play the 9th degree on the A string so that I can still play the same pattern in the same position. When I come back down I'll play the 8th degree in that position (on the A string), but then move back to the original position but start with the 7th degree on the D string... I hope that makes sense.

So yeah, any suggestions if this is okay or if you have any recommendations on another way of doing this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

[Papa Dangerous]

Well, it seems like you have A Dorian down. Try C Ionian. It starts in major rather than minor. Maybe try A Aeolian and get the feel for a natural minor scale. Keep the same game plan, just change up the key a bit. Once you got the natural minor, raise the 7th and do a harmonic minor. Feeling crazy? Do Melodic minor - natural minor with a raised 6th and 7th in the ascend, and a natural minor scale for the descend.

[Matthew_84]

Sorry Papa,

I didn't meant that I need help with the theory, I just used A Dorian as an example. Every day I'll do a different tonic and a different scale.

My concern is that I'm relying solely on patterns, and whether or not that will cause problems down the road.

[GeoffT]

If you want to really get a handle on your chord tones, you should aim for any chord type from any finger, anywhere on the neck, including inversions.

One way to get fairly close to that would be to pick a note on your E string, say G. Start with G Major 7th and play it up an octave and a half, 1-3-5-7-8-3-5 and back down starting on your first finger, remaining in that position on the fretboard (3rd -7th fret). Then move up to the 3rd on the E string and start with first finger on the 3rd (B for G Maj7) and play it all the way up and down in that position. Move up again to first finger on the 5th on the E string. Then up to first finger on the 7th on the E string. You can move back down the neck for the 3rd, 5th, or 7th depending on where you started. Make sure to keep track of where the root is in each position. This should cover most of the possibilities from each finger. The ring finger kinda gets overlooked as a starting point this way but it gets you pretty close to each shape from each finger all over the fretboard. Making up a fretboard map for the shapes or playing them over a backing track isn't a bad idea at first until you really get the fingerings down and start to get the sounds in your head.

Then repeat the process using groups of 4, example of GMaj7, start with index finger on the root and play 1-3-5-7, 3-5-7-8, 5-7-8-3, 7-8-3-5 and back down in that position. Then move up index finger to the 3rd, 5th, and 7th on the E string. This will help with getting familar with playing the inversions in each position.

Then using the same starting note do the same thing for Dominant 7th, Minor 7th, and Minor 7b5 in that order, each one will change from the previous chord by having one note different.

There's tons of variations you can get to with changing the order of notes, changing directions, changing positions on different strings, etc. but this gives you a pretty solid framework to build upon.

There are also some excellent videos out there from Scott Devine and Adam Neely covering practicing chord tones.

[JTE]

You need to think about it instead using the patterns. First SING everything you play. Then make yourself start each arpeggio with a different finger.

Jihn

[angryclown5]

If you take your basic diatonic arpeggio exercise (R,3,5,7, 7,5,3,R) from root on the low G on the E string up an octave and back down again to 80 bpm on the metronome, then bump up to 84, then 88, etc., it will force you to explore the other possible fingerings just to stay with the time.

It's not always going to work best to grab all the minor roots with your first finger. At some point you will need to grab a minor root with your pinky and go 4, 2, 1, 4 for a minor 7 arpeggio.

[PocketGroove82]

Dude, solid warm up! That's some great stuff to execute as your fingers get loose, but before your decide to start making the fantastic music you hear in your head while playing with people over an actual tune.

From your post it's easy to read that you already know a little theory and you're growing to understand that using only one fingering is limiting you as a player. We're trying to make music, not run the same fingering patterns on the same scales we already know.

work on connecting your ear to your instrument.

[Matthew_84]

Thanks everyone,

I have been reading the posts as they come up and been thinking about what to do. The routine I was doing was a solid warm-up and then allowed me to groove. But I know myself and if I worked on just running up and down the neck doing inversions and different fingerings every day that I'll get bored and likely drop it.

I've read Ed Fuqua's thread about how to really learn a tune. I can't recall all of the steps but I know there's some great stuff in there. What I'll plan to do is to play it once in one position, trying to remain there for as long as I can, and then I'll play it in another position forcing myself to figure out the different fingerings. Once I internalize the progression a bit I'll start improvising and adding inversions.

Looking forward to this, should be fun. Thanks everyone.

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

I have been reading the posts as they come up and been thinking about what to do. The routine I was doing was a solid warm-up and then allowed me to groove. But I know myself and if I worked on just running up and down the neck doing inversions and different fingerings every day that I'll get bored and likely drop it.

The idea isn't to just grind arpeggios mindlessly everyday forever, it is to get familiar with the other possible ways to play and hear your chords (or scales). It sounds like you have "default" positions for Major (root on middle finger) and Minor (root on index) and you can groove/play over changes using these positions without having to think about it, how did you get to that point? Probably by practicing the scales/chords in those positions over and over until you were very comfortable with them. Did you get bored with that stuff and drop it? How cool would it be if your entire fretboard was your default/automatic position?

The major benefits to spending some time on the stuff I mentioned are:
1. To open up the entire fretboard and get out of your default position when you see a chord on a sheet or in a progression.
2. To get familiar with hearing and playing the chord/arpeggio from above and below the root and forcing you to start on notes other than the lowest root. This is huge if you are used to going root to root on chords and scales.
3. To get familiar with being able to play (and hear) any chord type starting from any finger.

Check out Pacman's sticky on practicing scales, what I described is pretty similar except for arpeggios (he did a much better job of explaining the step by step details). There is a reason his teacher taught it to him, why he posted it, and why I recommended a similar method for arpeggios --> It is an organized and efficient plan that tends to have very good results, just look at the feedback from people in the scale sticky. Once you get this stuff to the point where you are just as familar with it as you are with the stuff you currently use to warm up, it becomes automatic just like your current default positions are.

Do what you think will work the best for you. I am just giving my recommendation based on what I've seen to be an excellent way to move beyond what you described in the OP.

[Ed Fuqua]

In addition to the ear training method that I've outlined elsewhere, the methodology used by my teacher is this:
Starting with triads (in all keys, but for the sake of space, I'll just use C as the "base") play the four triads (major, minor, diminished, augmented) in root position and inversions, as follows - root position C E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G#, then the first inversion E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G# C, then the second inversion G E C G Eb C Gb Eb C G# E C. Go through all 12 notes as the root.
The next exercise is similar, except in this one you play as follows, root, 1st, 2nd: C E G E G C G E C, then the minor C Eb G Eb G C G Eb C, then the diminished C Eb Gb Eb Gb C Gb Eb C, then the augmented C E G# E G# C G# E C. Go through all 12 notes as the root.
THEN you do the same thing with open position triads 1-5-3 1-5-b3 etc as in the above exercise (root position all 4, 1st all 4, 2nd all 4 THEN root, 1st,2nd for maj, then minor etc.) Let me know if that's not clear.
THEN you go to 4 part chords (major7, dominant7, minor7, diminished 7 (1 b3 b5 bb7),minor maj7, minor 7 b5 (or half diminished), mediant (augmented b7) and augmented7.
THEN 4 parts with 1 tension THEN 4 parts with 2 tensions.
Have fun!

[Matthew_84]

LOL, good points by all!

Geoff you're right about how I got where I am, and there are many benefits to what you recommended to me, and Ed... Well, more great stuff as always.

Guess the best thing is really just a constant balance of both, so a lot of my practices will consist of some warm-ups with the fingerings and then I'll play some songs and work what I've learned into them.

Love this site.. Really do.

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

The next exercise is similar, except in this one you play as follows, root, 1st, 2nd: C E G E G C G E C, then the minor C Eb G Eb G C G Eb C, then the diminished C Eb Gb Eb Gb C Gb Eb C, then the augmented C E G# E G# C G# E C. Go through all 12 notes as the root.

Thanks Ed for cranking it up a notch, as usual. Your posts are always "the really good stuff" as is your book.

Two questions about the inversions, for the 1st inversion, are you going to the higher C as in 3-5-Octave or back to the root as in 3-5-Root? For the 2nd inversion, why the change in direction playing 5-3-1? For root, you play 1-3-5, 1st inversion you play 3-5-then start over at the beginning of the sequence with root (or octave depending on your answer to the first question), I would expect that the 2nd inversion would then be 5-1-3. Is it just to get the sequence to end up back on the root?

[Ed Fuqua]

For this exercise you keep going in one direction (3,5 octave), I guess I should have used C1 and C2 etc. So for a 1st inversion diminished triad, for example, it would be Eb Gb C2. Does that make sense? The open position would be Eb C2 Gb2 etc.
And oops, yes that SHOULD read CEG ECG GCE. My bad.

[GeoffT]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

For this exercise you keep going in one direction (3,5 octave), I guess I should have used C1 and C2 etc. So for a 1st inversion diminished triad, for example, it would be Eb Gb C2. Does that make sense? The open position would be Eb C2 Gb2 etc.
And oops, yes that SHOULD read CEG ECG GCE. My bad.

Got it. Look forward to working it in to the plan. Thanks.